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Why don't they just accept that motorbikes are deathtraps and campaign against people riding them?

(258 Posts)
GoshAnneGorilla Fri 26-Apr-13 17:27:59

Instead of spending so much time and money going on at car drivers, wouldn't it be better to discourage people from using motorbikes in the first place?

Sparklingbrook Sun 28-Apr-13 16:59:29

Yes claude but lots of things exist-that's the problem. grin

I see where you are coming from my Dad used to say the same. He used to go out and 6am in the morning on a Sunday though-fair weather/non rush hour biker. grin

claudedebussy Sun 28-Apr-13 12:01:03

being on a bike is the most incredible experience - you feel so free. the power throbbing between your legs (snort), the execution of a perfect corner, the burst of speed so fast it takes your breath away, the pleasure of seeing a winding road stretching into the distance, the whine of the engine just before you change up, the camaraderie of nodding to other bikers who are enjoying exactly the same thing on a cool, sunny day. it's like nothing else exists except you, your bike and the road. nothing else comes close.

<ideal world.>

GoshAnneGorilla Sun 28-Apr-13 11:57:18

Fallen - how on earth is starting a thread in AIBU "pretending I'm clever"?

GoombayDanceBand Sun 28-Apr-13 10:39:52

I get a bit jealous when I'm in a traffic jam, and I see bikes going past. But it doesn't make me hate the people on them.

What makes me angry with people is when they act like twats and put their lives in danger at my expense iyswim.

I consider myself a careful driver but if someone tries to make me hurt them, it makes me very angry.

Sparklingbrook Sun 28-Apr-13 09:06:39

I think the notion of being jealous of the filtering is bonkers TBH msrisotto. I don't tend to be jealous of other road users. grin

msrisotto Sun 28-Apr-13 09:00:12

I'm not jealous that motorbikes can filter, it's when they do it in fast (I.e. not crawling) moving traffic that it posses me off because it is bloody dangerous! They filter into your safe distance between you and the car in front. I know cars often do this too but it doesn't make it right and motorbike riders are so much more vulnerable.

I have once seen a group of Harley riders driving at the speed limit. It was so unusual that my husband and I both mentioned it at the time and I remember it now. Other than that, my general opinion is that motorcyclists that I have come across speed. I think the reason that people think they come out of nowhere is a combination of their faster acceleration speed and the fact that they filter (read - cut in between cars where there isn't a safe space.)

Sparklingbrook Sun 28-Apr-13 08:59:35

Do you think it depends where you live as to what motorbike riding style you see? My driving is mainly country lanes with trips into smallish towns. Someone who drives round cities regularly will see a different style as with Motorways?

If the OP wanted a debate, they have had one, the thread has run since Friday evening.

TheFallenNinja Sun 28-Apr-13 08:16:27

I wanted to have a debate.

No, you didn't. You just wanted to pretend that you are clever by taking a tired, boring position on a topic that does more rounds than an Eagles comeback tour.

Don't you have another, more constructive outlet for this clearly misplaced genius?

MidniteScribbler Sun 28-Apr-13 07:51:40

Mine is a Holden 4x4 dual cab ute that has had a big canopy on the back which has been built in with dog cages. Because of that, the blind spot is shocking for me, but she (and her big bull bar) has saved my life numerous times against early morning suicidal roos, so I'll keep her. It's also good fun for watching the faces of men when you pull up somewhere and can reverse park the trailer first go. "Chicks" shouldn't know how to do that apparently. grin

The other driver had a honda fake suv wannabe thing. My tow ball ripped the guts out of his engine and left it crying like collingwood supporter when they loose a match. He hit me at 80ks per hour and it had to be written off.

GoombayDanceBand Sun 28-Apr-13 07:30:26

Yes you're absolutely right Midnite. If everyone drove or rode with your way of thinking, it would be far safer out there.

By the way, ' I was hit last year (whilst stationary at a traffic light) and my vehicle had a few scratches on the tail gate, whilst his was a complete write off, so I know the potential for my vehicle to cause serious injury. '

I want whatever car you've got! grin
(when you say large - my first car was a LWB transit, it was 17ft long, and I destroyed a few gateposts reversing in that...) blush

dawntigga Sun 28-Apr-13 07:20:48

Of course Op you wanted a debate, that's why you couched your op in deliberately inflammatory language.


MidniteScribbler Sun 28-Apr-13 07:18:58

No, I actually agree with you Goombay, there are many good bikers out there (over here we tend to refer to people who ride motorcycles as 'bikers' and the less savory element as "bikies" just so you understand why I use the term I do) just as there are many good drivers, cyclists, pedestrians and horse riders. My point is that I take responsibility for myself on the road. I'm careful, cautious and I do make the assumption that someone may do something silly because I'd rather be prepared for the worst than get lulled in to a false sense of security. I do drive a very large vehicle, and I'm hyper aware of the damage I could do if I'm involved in an accident. I was hit last year (whilst stationary at a traffic light) and my vehicle had a few scratches on the tail gate, whilst his was a complete write off, so I know the potential for my vehicle to cause serious injury.

What I'm saying is that everyone needs to be aware of themselves and other vehicles, regardless of what type of vehicle they are driving. For example, I was always taught not to drive in someone's blind spot if I could avoid it, for the very reason that it is a blind spot. So for a biker (or any vehicle) to pootle along in someone's blind spot for a few kms, there is the potential there for a person to pull out. I'd much rather someone overtake, or sit behind me, rather than on my shoulder as it's a much safer place to drive. I'll check, double and triple check and indicate well before I make a lane change to make sure I don't hit anyone, but bikers could make themselves safer by not driving there in the first place because not everyone may be as obsessive about checking as I am. Road safety is a two way street (pardon the pun!).

GoombayDanceBand Sun 28-Apr-13 07:01:50

Hang on a moment. You're generalising there Midnite. I and many, many other sensible motorcyclists do NOT in any way expect other road users to take responsibility for my/our safety.

We ride safely, we stick within the speed limit, we are careful and aware and defensive when riding.

If you treat us a bit like any other vehicle then we all should be ok.

I do filter at times but I do it slowly and carefully (and noisily enough to be heard) so that if anything did occur, through someone's error, it would be more likely a near miss at slow speed than an actual incident.

I have to say this rarely happens, that drivers don't know I'm coming along beside them. Very rarely.

However I was overtaken when driving the other day by some idiot on a bike who appeared at speed out of nowhere, which did make me jump, and yes I called him names under my breath.

There are bikers and there are motorcyclists. We're not all the same. I drive a car, since 18 years, I ride a bike for 12. I cycle as well.

Cyclists often freak me out on the road.

My thinking is still that motor cars and bikes should have a separate road system to pedal cycles, because we're basically incompatible if we want things to be efficient. But if people on motorbikes behave themselves then they are basically very compatible with cars. I often ride in a steady flow of traffic, same speed as an ordinary car, just I'm a bit narrower.

Many people who ride bikes DO love the thrill of speeding, but I can't say I have ever understood that. And I would guess that a whole lot more of us don't care a hoot how fast we are going, we just love to be on a bike full stop.

So please don't put us all into one box labelled 'maniacs' because I think you'll find that's a huge misconception.

MidniteScribbler Sun 28-Apr-13 02:32:43

Many other comments were implying all bikers are dangerous or we scare drivers and we are as a whole unpredictable.

I said that they scare me, because they do. Sadly, I have seen so many poor bikers that aren't doing the right things. Other drivers scare the heck out of me too. So do cyclists not in the bike lanes. And toddlers crossing roads without holding their parents hands. It's because I don't trust anyone that I've managed to not have an accident in all my years of driving. I can only take responsibility for my own safety on their road to make sure I don't injure someone else and I always work on the assumption that the other person will do something stupid and err on the side of caution.

What annoys me is that a particular group of people (in this case bikers) are expecting a whole other group of people to be responsible for their safety, without accepting and addressing faults in their own behaviour that can lead to some very avoidable incidents.

GoshAnneGorilla Sun 28-Apr-13 02:20:21

Rowan - It is hard to have much bias in numbers of dead people.

Motorcyclists are 1% of road users, and account for 19% of road deaths. Please show me where the bias occurs.

Piglet - Thank you for the stone and egg analogy, that is my point exactly.

I posted in AIBU because I wanted to have a debate (btw, that's not the same as trolling or stirring), but I am baffled as to how irate some people have been. "Needing a lie down" and "Hiding the thread", seems a bit excessive.

I do think if motorbikes where some new fad that had been imported from abroad and had the same death/accident rates that they do now, they would almost certainly be banned.

Rowanblossom Sun 28-Apr-13 00:06:32

Everyone is vulnerable whatever you use for transport....however the initial post was.......

"Why don't they just accept that motorbikes are deathtraps and campaign against people riding them"

Many other comments were implying all bikers are dangerous or we scare drivers and we are as a whole unpredictable.

I and every biker I know take extreme care with regard to safety. One of the MAIN reasons we are vulnerable is the behaviour and complete lack of awareness of other road users and further despite bbc crap reporting and governmental biaised reports the MAIN reason for motorbike incidents are Smidsy drivers.

Yes there is a minority of idiot riders but most of us are responsible on the roads as we are more than aware we don't bounce.

The given ethos that we just get on a bike and ride around like loons is narrowminded, especially given the new regs and the fact that learning to ride is actually tougher than learning to drive (as a friend's son told me after learning to drive and ride). There are limits now for different ages, where engine size is limited for bike riders, unlike young drivers who can after passing their test get into any car they want regardless of engine size.

PigletJohn Sat 27-Apr-13 23:00:53

fault isn't the point. It's vulnerability.

If an egg falls on a stone, alas for the egg.

If a stone falls in an egg, alas for the egg.

You're the egg.

Rowanblossom Sat 27-Apr-13 22:34:30

Wow. Who said gross prejudice and stupidness are dead!!!!!!!!!

So let's make sure I get this right, all bikers ride dangerously, too fast, and filtering shouldn't be allowed cos cars can't. Not to mention that helmets are scary and you can't tell what sex we are in our protective gear. Oh yes and it is always our fault if an incident happens because the other party didn't see us because they don't think they need to use mirrors, indicators, spatial awareness or engage their brains! 

Damn I should stop riding at or under the speed limit and being road aware, and saying thanks to those who nudge over for me and buy into the obviously fair and level headed thinking!

Next time a car driver cuts me up, tries to undertake, change lanes without looking or indicating, chucks a cig butt out of the window (again without looking) or decides to swerve to stop my legal filtering I will pull along side and profusely apologise for their actions, getting in their way and generally being annoying to their sensabilities and belief that their opinion is the only corrct one. 

I knew i should have apologised to the woman driver who nearly took me out cos she was too busy reading paperwork, or the young lad who was having such an animated chat on his mobile phone that he didn't think it was important enough to have either hand on the wheel or go travel in a straight line (nearly hitting the coach on one side and the central reservation on the other) and obviously it was my fault that the male driver changed lanes without looking whilst shaving.

I would add I have a clean driving licence for 26 years and not all drivers are numpties. I wouldn't generalise car drivers, cyclists, bikers or pedestrians as all dangerous idiots. In every area there are both sensible people and idiots. 

However buying into governmental biased report is right up there on the numpty scale. 

Its like the hi viz report saying it will save lives when an independent report stated that as soon as the brain recgonises the hi viz isn't police related it is no longer a visusal deterent and people immediatly ignore it. This process takes the brain less than a couple of seconds to carry out. Do I wear hi vis ....yes cos it makes me feel better and also I have the knowledge that no legal bod can blame me for not wearing it because a "Smidsy" was in action.

ivykaty44 Sat 27-Apr-13 17:17:26

I thought of ths thread today as I was pulling out of sainsbury car park I was cut up badly by another car - I wasn't going fast and I stopped to avoid a collision, but what made me roll my eyes was the fact that as I came up behind this car at the roundabout in the back window was a sticker

Think bike
Think biker

shame the driver didn't think to use there near side wing mirror....

Pan Sat 27-Apr-13 12:49:39

I think it depends on the local police IF they would be intersted, and just how bad the driving was possibly?

The vast vast majority of drivers are really fine and polite, ime anyway. But I don't ride in central London which seems to be a jungle of it's own.

Pantah630 Sat 27-Apr-13 12:41:26

FFS play not lay, though laying would obviously be safer.
Off to work out how to hide the thread.....oh there smile

Pantah630 Sat 27-Apr-13 12:36:19

Can't even be arsed, here have this biscuit and go lay in the cotton wool! angry

DomesticCEO Sat 27-Apr-13 12:23:16

shock Pan!

I'm a cyclist (pedal) and really fancy getting one of those helmet cams tbh. I wonder whether the police would prosecute dangerous driving based on the video evidence from them?

Pan Sat 27-Apr-13 12:14:11

yes, I'm curious about reporting drivers using their mobiles whilst driving. Would the police be intersted?

As I'm pedalling away and drawing level with cars it's really hmm to see what people are doing when they are supposed to be concentrating. Couple of weeks ago there was a woman eating her cereal. One hand on bowl, one hand on spoon, presumably steering wheel between her thighs/knees.

pinkhalf Sat 27-Apr-13 11:57:36

Yes please use your indicators before you move. And use your mirrors. Afterwards is no good.

It is easy to be brave in a car, or thoughtless in how you drive. There is no divine right for you to act like you own the road because you occupy more of it. If you are on your mobile I report you to the police. You aren't paying attention to the road.

I would like to see Dutch style liability laws for driving here. The larger the vehicle, the greater the responsibility. If you hit someone in a smaller vehicle, the liability will rest with you unless there are exceptional circumstances.

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