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to think those who are against the MMR vaccination should read this?

(31 Posts)
megsmouse Sun 21-Apr-13 23:53:41

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TidyDancer Mon 22-Apr-13 00:30:33

It's hardly succinct is it?

Maybe you should've added this to one if the many existing threads on the subject. There are so many around now it seems pointless starting another.

Jan49 Mon 22-Apr-13 00:44:11

YABU if you think only those who are against any vaccine need to do any reading. Those who think that since Wakefield's work was discredited, all vaccines must therefore be 100% safe and fine for every child might want to look up the names of some of the children with autism who have been awarded compensation in a U.S. court for vaccine damage. Try googling Hannah Poling and Ryan Mojabi. In Hannah's case she had numerous vaccines at once including the MMR. In Ryan's case it was the MMR.

McNewPants2013 Mon 22-Apr-13 00:52:28

The austism theory is a pet hate of mine.

Ds has austism and has had the mmr, am I to blame for ds disability. ( I don't think so)

AudrinaAdare Mon 22-Apr-13 00:54:12

The cartoon isn't that comprehensive. It seems to be missing the frame which says that Brian Deer is an odious cunt. Besides. A cartoon? Really? How insulting to those with damaged children and other legitimate concerns. Your children were fine I take it?

AudrinaAdare Mon 22-Apr-13 00:59:12

Wakefield didnt say that MMR caused autism though. He was studying bowel damage in already autistic children. The mmr autism link is a tabloid construct.

DioneTheDiabolist Mon 22-Apr-13 01:06:23

Nowhere on any if the threads have I seen anyone making such a statement Jan.hmm

megsmouse Mon 22-Apr-13 10:16:50

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

gordyslovesheep Mon 22-Apr-13 10:19:58

Oh Jan some of us actually do research and are 100% aware of vaccine damage (as openly explained on the NHS Vac website btw) but decide the risk from the illness is greater and choose to vaccinate

I love the idea that only conspiracy theorists no vaccinators do any reading before making a choice

Fakebook Mon 22-Apr-13 10:20:27

The man has no eyes, nose or mouth. I won't read it.

stargirl1701 Mon 22-Apr-13 10:29:02

Jan49, I googled these names. It would appear both children had a vaccine reaction. This is a known risk for vaccination. It says so in the info available about vaccination. It is on my health record card from the 70s. There will always be a tiny group of children who have a severe reaction like this and, as we can read, they will receive compensation.

It doesn't change the importance of vaccination as a public health benefit. More children would be damaged (as a statistical population group) from the diseases we vaccinate for than the numbers damaged by vaccine.

Life can be utterly shit. You think you're doing the right thing but your child is damaged anyway. Just tragic. I feel for these parents so much.

DD will still be getting the MMR.

YoniMaroney Mon 22-Apr-13 10:45:32

Why is Brian Deer a cunt?

wannaBe Mon 22-Apr-13 11:02:23

<yawn> did you vaccinate your children? yes? and are you happy with your decision? yes? excellent. Well then how's about you bask in the glow of that satisfaction and leave those who make alternative decisions to you to do the same.

If you vaccinated your own children then what other people choose to do with theirs is really none of your concern, is it?

I am always somewhat hmm at the "well it's only a tiny proportion" when referring to children who have been left permanently and severely disabled due to vaccine damage, yet if we are referring to say a death from chicken pox, something which is even more rare than vaccine damage then "one is tooo many and anyone who doesn't is irresponsible" .... double standsards me thinks.

EllieArroway Mon 22-Apr-13 12:29:37

If you vaccinated your own children then what other people choose to do with theirs is really none of your concern, is it?

This is an appalling point of view.

Some children genuinely cannot have the vaccine (or any vaccine) for very sound medical reasons. But that's OK - if everyone who could have it, did so, then herd immunity would protect the small number who can't.

My son didn't just have the vaccine to protect himself, but to be part of an entire community protecting each other.

EllieArroway Mon 22-Apr-13 12:33:51

How many children have died from reactions to penicillin, wannaBe? Quite a few - it's far more dangerous than MMR (which has never killed anyone). But does any sensible person think it should be banned outright for every child? No - because the risks compared with the benefits are small. And we could say the same about absolutely everything - get in a car, and you run a risk of death. Walk down the stairs and you run the risk of death. Take an aspirin and you risk death. It's about evaluating risk & THAT'S what some people seriously cannot comprehend.

Jan49 Mon 22-Apr-13 12:57:07

Dione, some people certainly write as if they think there is no possible risk from vaccinations. There are risks whether you vaccinate or choose not to, yet many people have posted on these boards that those who don't vaccinate are selfish or like the OP here, imply that it's only because of the Wakefield issue that people are concerned about the MMR therefore since Wakefield was discredited these people should have no concerns. So yes it does seem to me that many people think Wakefield discredited = all vaccinations fine.

Anyway I think this subject has been covered over and over elsewhere so I'm dropping out now. I hope parents will consider BOTH sides of the argument before deciding whether to vaccinate. I'm neither pro-vac or anti-vac. I think it's very scary and I wish there were more information available.

wannaBe Mon 22-Apr-13 14:24:04

"never killed anyone," you know that for certain do you? no didn't think so. Vaccine damage is a reality whether people want to admit that or not. It was the media that made the "mmr causes autism" hysterical quotes not Andrew Wakefield. But let's blame one person for all the hysteria that surrounds that quote because it's the easiest way to call people who choose not to vaccinate irresponsible etc. Let's pretend that there aren't parents, some of whom are on mn, whose children have regressed following vaccination (not all mmr, there are other vaccines that have caused issue in the past, ones with thermerisol (sp?) in iirc), and write them off as just coincidence when they tell of how their dc regressed within days/hours of vaccination, because that just weakens the argument for anyone who makes an informed decision not to vaccinate.

Many people choose not to vaccinate for very valid reasons. Many people who choose not to vaccinate are still pro vaccination. It's just not a black and white issue.

I vaccinated with mmr but my personal view is that we over vaccinate our children. Chicken pox vaccine is IMO unnecessary, there is a lot of evidence that vaccinating against mumps leads to an increased incidence of the disease in adulthood when the risks are much higher. It's just not that straightforward and people should be gree to make the decisions they feel are best for their families.

EllieArroway Mon 22-Apr-13 14:56:25

"never killed anyone," you know that for certain do you? no didn't think so

Yes. There's never been a recorded death directly attributed to MMR anywhere in the world. Some children have died after having it, but investigations have shown another cause of death.

I vaccinated with mmr but my personal view is that we over vaccinate our children Well, good for you. Get a PhD in virology and your personal view might carry some weight.

Medical advice is to vaccinate - and every single study everywhere in the world has shown that MMR is safe. Not only that, in countries like Japan where they stopped giving MMR, autism rates went up.

But let's ignore the experts and evidence, what do they know?

Oh man.....hmm

ClementineKelandra Mon 22-Apr-13 15:01:32

The reason my children haven't had the MMR is nothing to do with Wakefield. I couldn't care less what he said.

My children haven't had it because I believe the hundreds of parents who swear their child became ill after it.

eccentrica Mon 22-Apr-13 15:07:47

Rather than the hundreds of thousands whose experiences have been scientifically studied.

ClementineKelandra Mon 22-Apr-13 15:10:41

Yep smile

It might only be a minority who are affect but I can't take a risk like that.

ClementineKelandra Mon 22-Apr-13 15:11:00


AudrinaAdare Mon 22-Apr-13 15:36:05

You can see Brian being a cunt at 10.30 here (scroll forward if necessary)

It's no way to talk to the parent of a child who is suffering, and who has to live with it every day and knows that something is very wrong. Especially since he is not medically qualified.

I would like to think that people on both sides of the debate might agree that he is arrogant and insensitive.

noblegiraffe Mon 22-Apr-13 15:44:36

Audrina, Wakefield did absolutely state that MMR caused autism. It mightn't have been in his original paper but he said it to the press, and wrote a letter to the Lancet in 1999 clearly stating this.

AudrinaAdare Mon 22-Apr-13 16:14:16

Did he? shock

There is so much to this that I haven't been able to review it all. My DS is autistic, had both sets of MMR even after being seriously ill (couldn't even keep water down for five days) after the first and has had dreadful pain and bowel movements since then.

I don't have the time or the scientific knowledge to understand it all but I would like someone to acknowledge that he has these problems and find the whole thing very upsetting because DS, as an autistic child pre-MMR has enough to deal with without additional physical issues.

Anyway, thank you for setting me straight on that. I stand by my opinion on Brian Deer however grin

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