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AIBU to blame social science courses for some of this hatred of MrsT

(313 Posts)
Grinkly Sat 13-Apr-13 13:30:35

I did an OU foundation social science course once. A major part was the detrimental effects of redundancy and unemployment on individuals and the community. It was interesting and spelled out how lives can be devastated by this.

The example was a Yorkshire mining town. It was a good course but I wonder if those, unlike me, who weren't around at the time of the miners' strikes have got a skewed view of why things happened.

Billy Elliot touches on the strikes too I think. But no background info is given, as far as I remember.

Am just amazed at the vitriol - especially by those not directly affected. And it was a long time ago. Don't want to start another debate unless someone has a new point to make.

mercibucket Sat 13-Apr-13 13:51:12

she hated liverpool and we reciprocated

hillsborough cover up went right to the top

LunaticFringe Sat 13-Apr-13 13:51:58

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Branleuse Sat 13-Apr-13 13:52:58

you're blaming education of the issues for the hatred??

Grinkly Sat 13-Apr-13 13:53:39

Perhaps it's because the vitriol doesn't tally with someone who was voted in twice more

Yes, Intheframe, this is what I feel. And I was in Scotland at the time she was in power and I can assure you that we weren't voting her in (mabye 3 tories max in parliament) so who was, when we are now encouraged by what's being said that the whole country loathed her???

LunaticFringe Sat 13-Apr-13 13:53:44

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JollyPurpleGiant Sat 13-Apr-13 13:55:36

I agree with baba. Scotland pretty much hates her, despite not being all from heavy industry reliant families. The poll tax didn't help much.

Dawndonna Sat 13-Apr-13 13:55:57

The fact that she forced those councils who still had municipal housing to sell to housing associations, or creat housing associations, thereby reducing the rights tenants had.
The fact that the councils who had sold houses could only keep 28% of the capital receipts, neither enough to build further housing nor maintain existing housing.
The 'No such thing as society' remark.
The 'I know what ordinary people are like, I've walked down their streets' remark.
The 1989 housing act which stated that if you lived in L.A. Housing you were of the criminal classes.
The fact that it was the time when the gap between the rich and the poor became the greatest.
Putting parts of the NHS services out to tender, thereby privatising it. (Cleaning services etc).
Doing the same with local councils.
ad infinitum

Grinkly Sat 13-Apr-13 13:57:30

Sinking the Belgrano wasn't one of her finest moments either

Nor was Blair's lying to start a war with Iraq but he was voted back in despite this by labour voters so don't feel the Belgrano is any worse.

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 13-Apr-13 14:01:04

Care in the Community, or no care in other words, just chucking people from mental institutions on to the street.
The poll tax.
The selling off of all public companies which are now in the hands of a small group of people making millions in profits.
The selling off of council houses, without replacing the stock, which has led to today's housing crisis.
3 million unemployed, the highest ever figures at the time.
Yuppies, and the encouragement of greed before a social conscience.
Need I go on?

Pandemoniaa Sat 13-Apr-13 14:01:50

I didn't support the war in Iraq any more than I supported Thatcher's sinking of the Belgrano. Starting an illegal war will remain a stain on any legacy that Blair leaves behind.

But if all we are going to do is have a tit for tat political argument, further discussion seems pointless. Because that's as cheap a cop out as the suggestion that Social Studies courses are to blame for attitudes towards Margaret Thatcher.

BoneyBackJefferson Sat 13-Apr-13 14:02:05


Poll Tax
Selling off the council houses
Greenham common
Hunger strikes

There are more but you get the point

Grinkly Sat 13-Apr-13 14:02:35

Dawndonna - I think you could find similar for anyone who's been in power that long.

babanouche Sat 13-Apr-13 14:03:21

Re the question as to why she was voted in time and again - Menzies Campbell made the point on Question Time the other night that the opposition was a shambles. An audience member stated the number of people voting her in each time didn't change ie she didn't gather more support with each election. It was simply that there was no good alternative to vote for. Sounds familiar actually...hmm

EggsEggSplat Sat 13-Apr-13 14:03:21

Adds to Dawndonna's list:

Financial deregulation which led to the UK's over-dependence on financial services and banking, and so to the mess we are in in the wake of the 2008 crash
Also led to overselling of things like 100% mortgages and endowment policies and thus the crazy state of the UK property market (combined with selling off social housing and not replacing it)
The homophobia which led to Clause 28
Her support for the South African government in the apartheid era
Her support for all sorts of other unsavoury dictators

There are plenty of reasons for non-social scientists to be vitriolic about Thatcher.

CreatureRetorts Sat 13-Apr-13 14:03:28


We're talking about people here. The scars of her government's actions are still there today.

Who did well under thatcher? Who continues to do well? And who doesn't? Those who were screwed by her government then and continue to be.

Have a heart.

LessMissAbs Sat 13-Apr-13 14:03:54

I studied social sciences in Scotland. I remember History Higher was dominated by the Russian Revolution. The SQA must have been absolutely obsessed by it.

There are plenty of people in Scotland, outwith the small geographical area that is the western central belt, who are not only sick and tired of hearing about the miners and Ravenscraig ad infinitum, but who have suffered recent redundancies themselves in the professions, banking and software engineering. And what is going in Glasgow right now is ridiculous, its like another country.

btw Grinkly, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in Scotland without a grandfather or great grandfather who wasn't a miner, or a steelworker...but most people just move on.

Sunnywithshowers Sat 13-Apr-13 14:04:37

YABU. I studied the same course in 2004 and know the segment you mean.

Thatcher didn't just affect miners you know.

jellybeans Sat 13-Apr-13 14:04:58

I did the same OU course as remember the miners accounts! However it is not to blame for the hatred. I seem to remember reading her justification for her closing industries also so it wasn't that one sided. The hatred is generally due to her policies and comments and effects on people's lives.

lottieandmia Sat 13-Apr-13 14:09:21

The hatred is understandable. A friend of mine watched her dad lose countless jobs because she kept closing industries. As a result she grew up in poverty.

My family did not suffer under Thatcher but I was aware of plenty of people who did. Just because I was not personally affected doesn't mean I can't feel angry for those that were - what a selfish attitude that you shouldn't care about anything unless it affects you.

LunaticFringe Sat 13-Apr-13 14:10:28

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LaVolcan Sat 13-Apr-13 14:10:39

Nor was Blair's lying to start a war with Iraq but he was voted back in despite this by labour voters.....

He's not dead yet, but if they planned the same stupid state in all but name funeral, he would probably unleash as much vitriol.

Dawndonna Sat 13-Apr-13 14:11:55

Grinkly why did you ask when you are dismissing all replies.
Of course all governments wouldn't have done the same. The Labour party would, at that time, not have privatised either NHS or Council Services. They would not have sold off council housing.
For heaven's sake, look at what people are saying and then make your decision. There is no point in asking and then blithely ignoring all answers, learn from them.

Grinkly Sat 13-Apr-13 14:12:34

Come on guys - you are definately scraping the barrel - I mean you're talking 23 years ago and umpteen years of labour government later. Council tenants were v pleased to buy their own houses. Who wouldn't have been?

The public companies which she privatised were a joke, money for old rope, folk sitting at a desk for decades shuffling papers only to retire on a big fat index linked pension.

If the labour govs didn't jump up and revert the decisions made in her time maybe, just maybe they were the only option or the best decision. It's ridiculous to lambast her but to go on to ok what has happened since.

My point about Blair's War is that HE doesn't receive the vitriol that MT getsfor the Belgrano. Though deserves it more imo.

MerylStrop Sat 13-Apr-13 14:13:10

All of the above

Plus, of course, she was a woman, leading a nation of misogynists.

She's a hate figure because of that, in combination with her ideology and the impact of that on all subsequent political and economic strategy.

fanoftheinvisibleman Sat 13-Apr-13 14:14:39


I live in just one of those mining towns destroyed in South Yorks. It has a population of over 300,000 so add up all the others and it is a lot of people. Add in all the other industries affected such as railways and the steel industry and the affect on our region was catastrophic.

I am glad it is a mere history lesson for you but the boot was put in here and it sunk further before it could start to feel and better and we have been left with one hell of a legacy.

I am lucky, me and mine all work but not everyone was so lucky as vast majority of industry went meaning that general spending goes and the whole area becomes depressed. We are fighting back these days but given how low things were allowed to sink it often feels like your on the back foot from the off. The general economy, earnings and property prices all have long term effects.

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