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to think that seeing our national debt might

(163 Posts)
rottentomatoes Sat 13-Apr-13 12:19:30

stop people moaning about the government spending cuts? Aibu to think that if this timebomb was put on every computer screen as a screen saver people might be less likely to moan about the cuts being made in government spending.

Our Debt

Where it goes

cogitosum Sat 13-Apr-13 12:21:44

I don't understand the table. Where it says 'Scotland' and 'Wales' does that mean the other figures are just in England (ie health in England?)

rottentomatoes Sat 13-Apr-13 12:23:45

Hmm not sure cogitosum.
I'll have a look

TheYoniKeeper Sat 13-Apr-13 12:26:49

Maybe if you saw what the cuts were doing to people you'd think twice about your stance.

Yes, cuts were/are needed but not where they've been made. Using the debt as justification for severe cuts is a tactic. It appears to have done a right job on some people who usually have no idea what life's actually like for those most affected by cuts hmm

Episode Sat 13-Apr-13 12:27:01

And is there any reason they put benefits and pensions in the same category? They are two distinctly different areas of spending that show very different yet important bits of information regarding the economy! Or am I missing something?

redlac Sat 13-Apr-13 12:27:29

Health and Education are both devolved issues so I would assume that those figures were for England only

rottentomatoes Sat 13-Apr-13 12:29:22

So Yonikeeper where would you make the savings? Genuine question

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep Sat 13-Apr-13 12:31:15

Is it OK to moan about the cut in the 50p tax rate then? Just to clarify.

sydlexic Sat 13-Apr-13 12:36:17

I would make savings by including child support payments in means testing for tax credits.

I would take payments off of NRP through the tax system and give the credits to the RP through tax credits. I would not support those that think not paying for your offspring is acceptable.

I would treat non payment of child support as seriously as non payment of income tax.

rottentomatoes Sat 13-Apr-13 12:39:26

Those sound great ideas. I wonder how much that would save us all?

TheYoniKeeper Sat 13-Apr-13 12:41:06

^what sydlexic said

And get tough on tax evasion, which this government has only just started making noise about.

People think the benefit cuts are being made because there's room to do so. There isn't. They cover the basics or at least they did . There's certainly room for a shake up in the way the system works but that's a very different matter.

noisytoys Sat 13-Apr-13 12:41:18

I'm at the receiving end of a lot of cuts. I won't stop moaning. It's a grim existence. And the debt isn't really an argument because despite the cuts, the debt is still increasing.

rottentomatoes Sat 13-Apr-13 12:43:31

What sort of changes would you make in a shake up then?

Tee2072 Sat 13-Apr-13 12:43:45

How about taxing those with the most money rather than cutting support for those without it?

rottentomatoes Sat 13-Apr-13 12:44:12

Sorry to hear that, what cuts have you been on the receiving end of then?

rottentomatoes Sat 13-Apr-13 12:45:56


Would you define "people with the most money" how much more should they be taxed? I believe the pay 45% plus NI currently.

noisytoys Sat 13-Apr-13 12:46:17

Tax credits went down this week with no prior warning. We budget to the penny with no luxuries it's a big hit.

I just got a job as a cleaner though so hopefully we will make a turn for the better still thinking positively because all we have left is hope smile

TheYoniKeeper Sat 13-Apr-13 12:50:22

I'd try and make the whole system less complicated & easier to work out, and make it easier for those with children to work (both with childcare & in making it a better deal than being on benefits, rather than just cutting the benefits, which achieves very little & makes it even harder to climb the ladder).

You don't seem too keen on voicing your opinions on the effects of these cuts OP?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sat 13-Apr-13 12:50:34

What Tee said.The answer is primarily not to decrease spending but to increase taxes.

This is the only fair thing to do, cuts affect those with least money most, raising taxes affects higher earners most.

TheYoniKeeper Sat 13-Apr-13 12:51:36

(it's complicated in the sense that it can be hard to know what help is available & some people miss out when they don't need to because of dodgy advice etc)

Tee2072 Sat 13-Apr-13 12:52:44

Sorry, was typing quick on my phone.

What I really think is that everyone, from big corporations to the lowest earners, should pay the same flat rate, whatever the optimum amount to pay off the debt as soon as possible should be. No exceptions, no loopholes, no 'tax credits'. Flat amount, in percentage of total income (and I mean total every penny) off the top, taxed as earned. Including people like me, who are self-employed.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sat 13-Apr-13 12:54:25

Plus of course cut things like defence budget which is ridiculously high.

rottentomatoes Sat 13-Apr-13 12:57:17


How could everyone pay the same flat rate tax? How would that help pay off the debt I am truly confused. What percentage would that be?

So what would you increase taxes to and from what level of earning?

Tee2072 Sat 13-Apr-13 12:59:57

I don't know what percentage that would be. I said so in my post. Whatever percentage would actually make a dent in the debt.

And why wouldn't it?

If the rate is, say 10% (for ease of math at the moment) and your total income was £5,000 you'd pay £500. If you're income was £5,000,000 you'd pay £5,000.

Everyone would pay the same so no one would say they were 'hard done by'. The more you make, the more you pay.

Surely that's fair?

rottentomatoes Sat 13-Apr-13 13:01:58


Currently someone earning over say £100K would be paying 40% so your idea would be to decrease high earners tax? Or increase low earners who currently pay nothing up to £10K?
It makes no sense you'd be penalising the poor

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