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To think that it's perfectly fine to be pleased someone is dead when they caused such a lot of harm?

(504 Posts)
LoopaDaLoopa Tue 09-Apr-13 09:43:58

So, all these people saying it is inappropriate to speak ill of the dead are all positive and nice about Pol Pot are they? Stalin? Hitler?

Just because someone dies does not make them a nice person.

And did you feel sorry for Saddam Hussain's family? Or did it not cross your mind?

NorthernLurker Tue 09-Apr-13 10:14:30

There is a difference in greeting somebody's death with relief - because they can no longer do harm and in being glad of somebody's death. Especially so in the case of Margaret Thatcher. Everything she did was done under a democratic process and whilst you may loathe the results, as I do, it's utterly unfair to lump her in with murderous psychopaths. In any case she left power more than two decades ago. The woman who died yesterday was a very elderly, frail woman, still grieving an adored husband. She was somebody's mother and aunt and grandmother. She was many people's friend and mentor. All those people are grieving and grief should always be respected.

It's utterly petty and diminishing to get all 'ha ha she's dead' about this. What the hell has it to do with you anyway? Reflect on Thatcher the historical figure now if you must but you'd be better spent keeping your eye on the modern political ball.

flaminhoopsaloolah Tue 09-Apr-13 10:14:42

OP, I have to say, regarding SH...I remember clearly wondering if his children would be ok or if they would come to terrible harm and if his wives would come to terrible harm.

TheFallenMadonna Tue 09-Apr-13 10:15:12

Feeling pleased that someone has died long after they have ceased to govern is not quite the same as not being sad.

nokidshere Tue 09-Apr-13 10:15:23

Feeling relieved someone has died is one thing, mindlessly vandalising our streets once again is pathetic.

The pictures of the "celebrations" today are sickening! Mindless, thick yobs who somehow feel that they have the right to injure innocent people and destry property to prove what exactly?

Anyone who is stupid enough to jump on this bandwagon of disruption deserves everything they get.

Sugarice Tue 09-Apr-13 10:15:31

I'm not het up in any admiration for MT but your OP implied that her death and the jubilation shown by some was to be compared the deaths of stark bollock madmen who murdered people in truly horrendous dictatorships.

LoopaDaLoopa Tue 09-Apr-13 10:15:47

Yes, that certainly was the starting point for the thread, of course it was. But I wasn't particularly wanting to speak about her, more this notion that, once someone dies, they become in some way untouchable. That is wrong.

I'd love to have the parts where I sound ill-informed pointed out, by the way. Are there factual errors in my posts?

ImagineJL Tue 09-Apr-13 10:16:12

Does anyone remember the Not The 9 o Clock News sketch in which 2 politicians were viciously slagging eachother off on a Question Time sort of show? One of them was saying that the other was an idiot, a fool, various other very derogatory things. At that point the object of this criticism collapse and died, and the politician immediately changed his list of insults to lines like "a great political mind, a genius" etc.

Of course it was all about the hypocrisy of politicians when one of them dies. I am finding that hypocrisy quite unbearable at the moment, and it's refreshing to hear the few people who aren't praising her "qualities".

So I agree with the OP - when someone dies at nearly 90 years old, after hurting a great number of people and doing vast amounts of damage, I don't think we should feel morally obliged to mourn their passing. Should Jimmy Saville's victims be respectful of him?

I pity the loved ones of deceased people, but I don't have to pretend that I'm not happy when a bad person dies.

Sugarice Tue 09-Apr-13 10:17:50

Who is untouchable?

LoopaDaLoopa Tue 09-Apr-13 10:18:30

I'm not in the UK and not seen news, so know nothing of vandalisation. Will take a look. Absolutely do not agree with that, or even overt jubilation, but thinking and talking about your relief / gladness is still, IMO, Ok.

Minion Tue 09-Apr-13 10:19:00

Put it this way if the names were reversed would you agree with the following statement?
Gosh, don't you think Adolf Hitler is just as bad as Margaret Thatcher?
No, you would not agree I'm sure (assuming you're a rational human being).
He was responsible for ethnic cleansing. As was Pol Pot, Stalin and Hussein. Thatcher wasn't.
If you want an intelligent debate, perhaps you should have picked someone else to compare against?

Tanith Tue 09-Apr-13 10:19:19

"...except Mrs. T was a democratically elected leader"

So was Hitler.

Lueji Tue 09-Apr-13 10:19:21

And you have lost the argument just with your OP, by comparing MT to Hitler.

TheFallenMadonna Tue 09-Apr-13 10:19:43

Again, there's a difference between being pleased someone is dead, and not hypocritically lauding them after death. It's not so very difficult to see that, is it?

BinarySolo Tue 09-Apr-13 10:19:45

Celebrating someone's death is pretty hideous.

I wasn't a fan of MT. Much of what she did in office went against my political views. I was very young at the time but i remember i was glad when she left office. However, I also have a lot of respect for her just for achieving the position she did and being a strong leader, even more impressive that she did that as a woman in a male dominated area.

LoopaDaLoopa Tue 09-Apr-13 10:20:03

Anyone, sugarice, the idea that one should not speak ill of the dead renders them untouchable in death. I can't agree with that.

Booyhoo Tue 09-Apr-13 10:20:09

i think it's illogical to be pleased when someone like Thatcher dies. i could understand if it was during the time when she was causing alot of damage to the country. her dying then would have (hopefully) meant that would end and less suffering. but she died a very old, sick lady who wasn't causing harm to anyone at all so i cant understand the pleasure people are taking in her death. i am pleased when good things happen. nothing good has happened. the country will not be a better place for her death. it will improve no-one's life so i cant see where the pleasure in that is?

mrsjay Tue 09-Apr-13 10:20:27

no it doesn't make them a nice person I hated the woman but to say yaaayyy and get out the bunting is disrespectfu imo

l and saddam and gadaffi were dictators tyrants and murdered thousands Mrs thatcher did not do that you can't put them in the same bracket

AnyFucker Tue 09-Apr-13 10:20:37

Who is saying she should be "mourned"

Somebody else who needs to read threads properly...

ImagineJL Tue 09-Apr-13 10:21:13

And actually I think we should feel sympathy with the people who want to "celebrate" her death. They we clearly people whose families were destroyed by her regime. They are powerless to change what she did, her actions changed the course of their lives, and nothing will ever be the same. They campaigned during her "reign", but it made no difference. Nothing can or will ever be done to compensate their losses. So if they can derive a bit of pleasure from her death then I wouldn't begrudge them that. It's all they have left in many cases. To make them be respectful now would be adding insult to injury.

LaQueen Tue 09-Apr-13 10:21:35

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Tanith Tue 09-Apr-13 10:22:08

I remember that Ted Heath's Conservatives did a pretty poor job in the 70s, too. 3 day week, anyone?!

BinarySolo Tue 09-Apr-13 10:22:51

It's rubbish that death makes people untouchable. Often quite the opposite. Look at jimmy Savile

AnyFucker Tue 09-Apr-13 10:22:58

All the gravedancers attracting ridiculous attention to themselves make it more likely Cameron's lot will consider this a good week to bury bad news

LoopaDaLoopa Tue 09-Apr-13 10:23:54

I was not comparing her to Hitler so much as showing more blatant examples of public figures who have been hated on death. Would you prefer I replace his name with someone else hated by people?

NorthernLurker Tue 09-Apr-13 10:24:06

How old are you OP?

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