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This Judge is unbelievable. The case is horrific but he also blames her? Murder of Carmen Miron Buchacra

(167 Posts)
vivizone Fri 22-Mar-13 22:50:12

I am so angry. How is this possible?

7 years for killing your partner with a 7 week baby because as Judge said:

'I accept what caused you to lose self control was the cumulative effect of emotional abuse by Gaby over a significant period.

Because they had been arguing by text all day. So clearly she abused him.

What planet are these Judges from?

runningforthebusinheels Sun 24-Mar-13 12:18:58

Running, those remarks by the Judge are sentencing remarks, so made after the verdict. He was bound by the verdict of the jury when passing sentence. I don't believe we have heard anything of his summing up to the jury before they reached his decision.

I think my major problem with this is the low sentence this man received.

I also think those judge's words, whether used in summing up or in sentencing are very telling - angry texts and threatening to leave a partner - where evidence has been heard that he was actually physically abusive to her - are seen as mitigating circumstances for him to batter down her door and murder her in a most violent way.

Anyone reading the transcript of the recorded voicemail cannot possibly believed that his behaviour was justified?

bruffin Sun 24-Mar-13 12:35:16

seen as mitigating circumstances for him to batter down her door and murder her in a most violent way.

He didnt bash down the door, and if you are making up facts like that up what else are you making up.

ElegantSufficiency Sun 24-Mar-13 12:41:20

Bruffin, It was mentioned upthread that the judge mentioned that, that that was why the judge understood {?} his loss of control.

flippinada Sun 24-Mar-13 12:47:06

I don't think how he how got in is that relevant really, is it?

I mean, if he opened the door in the normal fashion and then strangled her to death, how does that make it better? In fact if he opened the door calmly and then went about his murderous business that sounds worse as it suggests he was in control.

"what else are you lying about?"

That's just silly.

flippinada Sun 24-Mar-13 12:48:23

So breaking down the door would support the "loss of control" defence.

MayorQuimby those cases referred to above are horrific.

moonabove Sun 24-Mar-13 12:54:23

Thank you Dreaming for that reference to the law on 'loss of control'. Reading it I actually think it proves the point I was making in that 'loss of control' is can not be properly defined.

*Partial defence to murder: loss of control(1)Where a person (“D”) kills or is a party to the killing of another (“V”), D is not to be convicted of murder if—

(a)D's acts and omissions in doing or being a party to the killing resulted from D's loss of self-control,
(b)the loss of self-control had a qualifying trigger, and
(c)a person of D's sex and age, with a normal degree of tolerance and self-restraint and in the circumstances of D, might have reacted in the same or in a similar way to D.*

Surely (c) would be the strongest element in the judgement? The majority of men in these circumstances would not have reacted in this way. If they did they would be even more murders of women by their partners than the current unacceptable level.

bruffin Sun 24-Mar-13 13:03:51

Flipenda have you just come back on this thread just to have ago at me? lovely hmm

what else are you lying about?"

That's just silly.
No its not, its just proves that people are reading what they wanted to read not what happens

runningforthebusinheels Sun 24-Mar-13 13:08:34

Moonabove - I agree.

Bruffin - she refused to let him in. He threatened to batter down the door - so she opened the door. That better?

He then - and let's be clear here - this was all recorded on a voice-mail, so "lying" really doesn't come into it - unleashes a horrific attack on the mother of his 11wk old baby.

"Mother-of-one Gaby can be heard pleading for her life as Keene punches her, telling her to shut up or 'you will be dead'.

He can be heard snarling: 'Why are you crying?

'What the f* is your problem? What have I done to you today? Carry on like this and I'm going to end up in prison because you will be dead.

'I may kill you because you are a f**** t***.'

During the trial Michael Fitton, QC, prosecuting, told how Keene first tried to strangle Gaby using a dressing gown cord before switching to an electrical cable to ensure her death.

That's a perfectly understandable response is it? How many men do you know who would react like that? hmm

flippinada Sun 24-Mar-13 13:10:00

The short answer to that is no bruffin.

And once again, if you are going to address me directly, please have the courtesy to use my correct username. Thank you.

flippinada Sun 24-Mar-13 13:12:37

Running I think that's the crux of it for me.

The transcript of the attack is just so incredibly disturbing.

moonabove Sun 24-Mar-13 13:18:02

"a person of D's sex and age, with a normal degree of tolerance and self-restraint and in the circumstances of D, might have reacted in the same or in a similar way to D."

In fact I would argue that even someone who did not have a 'normal' degree of tolerance and self-restraint would not have reacted with the appalling and calculated violence of this man.

The family's reaction is so painfully dignified and restrained. Like them I hope this man will suffer from the consequences of his actions because the legal system has certainly failed to punish him.

TomDudgeon Sun 24-Mar-13 13:26:46

It sounds like the judge thinks a woman being more intelligent than their partner is her being psychologically abusive

flippinada Sun 24-Mar-13 13:32:11

It does read a bit like that Tom.

moonabove Sun 24-Mar-13 13:38:54

The judgement was given in a magistrates court. I see that the link give to complain about low sentences refers to judgements in Crown Court. Would this case apply?

FastidiaBlueberry Sun 24-Mar-13 15:48:27

Actually Tom that is a very good point. Many men do experience the very idea that a woman is cleverer than them as emotional abuse.

And so obviously a male judge will sympathise with that.

Someone else mentioned the dennis waterman view of the world.

It really isn't that unusual.

fuckwittery Sun 24-Mar-13 20:37:36

Moonabove, the reference on the daily mail site to the judgment being given in a magistrates court is incorrect. magistrates don't hear murder trials. the This is Bath website correctly refers to the judgment being given at Bristol Crown Court, so you can use the link given to complain about the sentence.

moonabove Sun 24-Mar-13 20:46:41

Thought it seemed odd - thanks for that.

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