To ask my DF for an 'advance' on my 'inheritance'(100 Posts)
My DM died a year ago and since then my DF and me have finally begun to have a father/daughter relationship, free from the jealousy of my DM.
He helped me through a horrible divorce, lending me the money to fund a sol whilst I was waiting for the family home to be sold. When it did, I paid him back every penny - I wanted to, he accepted it.
I am renting a house which I can just about afford but I know I could live more cheaply if I buy and I do have a good deposit to put down on somewhere. But I live in a very expensive part of the country (expensive because it's trendy rather than it being particularly beautiful or cosmopolitan IYSWIM). I am in my early 50's and work full time so a mortgage will be harder to come by but I can do it.
DF is always asking if there's anything he can do to make things easier/better. I say no, I'll sort it, but the truth is I don't think I can afford a decentish home unless I ask DF for some financial help. How much I don't know, but maybe £15,00 max. He's not wealthy by any means but he and my DM were savers and he "has a lot put by" that is willed to me.
Am I a grasping DD to go to him and ask him for help? I feel like I am and I'm aware that my DM's 'legacy' is that I felt like I didn't deserve anything.
Your thoughts would be really helpful. Thank you.
If he has money saved anyway maybe look at Lloyds tsb lend a hand or barclays springboard mortgages. Might be a more appealing prospect to him since he will get his money back plus interest.
Worth noting that for your DF's estate there are tax advantages to making a gift now. If the gift is 7+ years old it is free from his estate for inheritance tax purposes, so if you are pretty sure he will live longer than 7 years it will reduce that tax liability on his estate. Worth double checking to make sure that is current, however when we were getting on the housing ladder my DM lent us the deposit. We tried to give it back a number of times, including when we recently moved, but as it's more than 7 years old she has said to keep it to reduce the liability upon her death. This is on the proviso that I take less when she does die. We still view it as a loan and should she ever need it back we would arrange it in a heartbeat.
yabu utterly completely and totally.
ask him for a loan. a gift. whatever. but an inheritance?
It boggles the mind that you would even allow such a thought to cross your mind, let alone post about it.
I'm guessing your Dad is in his 70's? I'd be a bit nervous taking any money from him at the point in life. I rang round Nursing Homes yesterday and they are the best part of 50k a year here so a lump sum can soon vanish and if assets run out Social Services come in and can go back through his financial affairs over the years. Apparently it's a misperception that they go back 7 years, supposedly they can go back further. Certain things can be regarded as Deprivation of Assets.
I'm being very paranoid about something that will probably never happen but now faced with finding care in the future I'm really glad I've never had any money from her as one less thing to worry about in a horribly stressful situation.
OP puts 'inheritance' in quotes - she's aware that her df intends her to have this money in the future. It's an 'advance inheritance' she's talking about - I don't see why this would boggle anyone's mind.
OP, I can appreciate that it's difficult to talk about money but it would be fair enough to put it in the way suggested above if your df asks how he could help again and go from there.
You sound very thoughtful and considerable to me. How lovely to have a father who cares about you like yours does and to develop your relationship.
A lot of people seem to assume that when a person gets to 70, is retired and mortgage paid off, they have loads of spare dosh sloshing about. Tbh I think there are very few people who could really just cough up 15k easily. The father still has bills to pay, he has no doubt saved money for any unexpected things which may crop up in his life, or dare I say it he may even want to treat himself now and then. Just because someone has assets and may have a significant sum to leave after their death in no way equates to having spare money in the here and now.
As the father keeps bringing the subject up, I guess the OP could open a general talk about house deposits, but no way would I ask for a 15k advance... I think once amounts are mentioned, he isn't going to be able to get the sum out of his head and could find it hard to say no easily.
He keeps asking how to help - how about saying you'd like a listening ear about your finances. Talk to him about the question of buying and tell him you do have money for a deposit so it's clear you could do this on your own. If he wants to offer you money, he will.
My hunch is he keeps asking you because he wants to help you.
It depends how much money he has saved. If you are asking for nearly everything he's got, then it would be unreasonable. But if not, I don't see the problem. You will make it easy for him to say no, presumably you will be around to help him with things he needs as he gets older.
Couldn't you just have the conversation about wanting to buy but being unable to? He might offer if he knows the position you're in.
I'd ask without hesitation but I'd put it in the first instance as a request for a loan. You said that he's got money 'put by' and he'll likely be getting derisory interest on it - so offer to match that interest because if 'all' you need is £15k it will be a whole lot cheaper all round to buy on that basis. Offer to do it formally if you like - and who knows what he might say on terms if he agrees. They could be more generous than you propose.
Our family have had varying degrees of savings over the years and I and my parents did this many times - they lent to me when I was in trouble, I lent to them when they were in straits...... It was done with interest (pennies) payable so everyone was real relaxed about it.
OP - I would ask your Dad if you can use him as a sounding board about what it would be best to do. Do you stretch yourself with a mortgage or carry on renting. Have some figures to look through. If he wants to help financially he will offer, if not, you've got the advice of someone who cares about what's best for you anyway.
Personally I wouldn't ask for help, either as a loan or as some sort of advance on an inheritance that may not exist. You say he isn't wealthy and he may well want his money for his own needs.
There is also something called "deprivation of assets" to be aware of. If he starts giving away large sums of money in later years, HMRC may treat him as still having that money when assessing care needs. I'm not sure that putting you on the deeds will help much either. HMRC are much more canny about any plans to avoid selling the home to pay for care. Apologies if I've misunderstood his reasons for doing this.
I know that you're not asking about this, but having a solicitor as executer may be very expensive and not really necessary if the estate is quite simple.
Could you possibly find a less trendy area to buy in?
I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask him for financial help. He's your father and, if you're 50, I imagine he's elderly now. I think he would probably be very happy to be able to help you, and if he's not, then he will tell you I suppose.
And a good thing about your situation is that he's already lent you money (several thousand I would guess?) and you paid him back. It's not a new part of the relationship.
I wouldn't be shy about it. Families help each other out and this would just be one of those times.
The 7 year rule does apply to gifts ie if your father lives for another 7 years or the estate is below the inheritance tax threshold then no inheritance tax is payable on that amount.
However deprivation of assets is definitely something to think about. If you give away sums of money or sign over property, then HMRC may still take those amounts or cost of house into account when assessing how much help your father can get with his care needs. Could get messy.
Also for deprivation of assets they can go back much further than 7 years.
We're in a similar situation.renting is extortionate. My grandparents recently died, leaving a £300,000 house to my dad. My parents have both bought new cars and a £15,000 kitchen. I asked them if we could borrow a bit for a deposit and they said they think we should rent longer.... Really close to my parents and no idea why they won't help!
In my experience, some older people can get 'anxious' eggso. They like to have the good feeling of a nest egg even if it turns out they never use it - even )in some cases) putting cash money away in places in the house for a security blanket. Yours were maybe just more anxious than others.
We have given quite substantial sums to each of our two sons for house buying/extending purposes. We have passed the 7 year rule for quite a lot of it, and am now hoping to stay breathing for another few years for the rest. Your dad will probably be delighted to help you out, just as we are with our sons. That is what famlies are for.
I would maybe follow the advice of the poster who said let your father know the situation without actually asking him for that sum of money. It might hurt his feelings if the amount you need is more than he has available to give you IYSWIM.
Next time he asks, you could say something along the lines of 'The one thing I'm really working on at the moment, dad, is working towards buying somewhere. I've managed to save £x, and I have another £x to go. If you're able to help me a bit towards that some time, then that would be wonderful.'
I wouldn't go with the idea of the person who suggested offering him part-ownership, because when, sadly, he passes away, you may be left with taxes to pay on his share, and that might put your house in jeopardy.
For your info, if he gives you a gift of more than a set amount (about £3.5k I think) then that is also subject to inheritance tax, but if he lives for 7 or more years after the gift, then there is no tax to pay. Obviously his estate may be below the inheritance tax threshold anyway. But it's important to know about these things, so that you don't get placed in the awful position of needing to sell your house to pay the tax.
If the OP's DF has an estate which is worth more than the inheritance tax threshold, then the estate would have plenty of funds to pay said tax. The OP is only talking about £15k here - there's no question of having to sell her own house.
Just randomly saying I need 15k for a house is bu, saying u could do with help on stamp duty or something is tangible and he can then say I can afford to give u 5 or something. I wouldn't put a figure on it. U cannot know what he can actually afford. If he gives u 15 but then goes in a care home he might need that money to afford his life.
He will want to help u but u need to let him say what that is. U need to talk. Openly. And finally, and this is hard to say, u might need to think of a different size house or area. Have to cut ur cloth so to speak.
Sory don't mean to be rude. Am paddling same boat at the moment....
It does sound as though he wants to help and if you can discuss it carefully, without giving the impression of any 'expectations' then I think that would be the way to go.
Without knowing his exact position it is difficult to know whether he is a position to 'give' you £15K or not. But he may be very happy to do so but doesn't want to offer it to you for fear of offending you?
I am in the fortunate position of having very generous parents who are very comfortably off and have recently given my siblings and I a gift of £10k each. Interestingly due to 'cash flow' issues I have since been able to make them a short term loan (repaid with a 25% bonus ) of £2k. But it helps that we are open, honest and appreciative towards each other regarding financial issues.
Unlike one of my siblings who contunies to make massive hints about getting more and more money.
I do appreciate how very sensitive an area it is.
It makes much more sense for him to give you the money now. YANBU
From your relationship, it sounds completely fine and he would be open to the conversation. People often like to be helpful....
We just did something very similar with my MIL for a substantial amount to help with house renovation and she was thrilled to do it. her will etc has been revised to reflect it as my DH has sibs.
Bedhopper, I believe that you can give away up to £3,500 per year with no tax implications, and that is not affected by the 7 year rule. The only proviso is that you can prove you can afford it if enquiries are made.
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