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to think I am right!

(88 Posts)
freddiefrog Tue 19-Mar-13 13:54:31

This has been going round and round for weeks now, I'm sick of arguing about it and getting to the point where I'm doubting myself.

I'm contracted to work 2 days a week (Wednesday & Thursday) so my holiday allowance is pro-rata - 35 days for full time employees, mine is 14 days.

I want a week off during the Easter holidays so put in a holiday request ages and ages ago, it was signed off and all ok.

Then I get an email to say that my days had changed to Monday & Tuesday due to my holiday on Weds/Thurs.

So I phone and point out I'm not working at all I have booked holiday for the 2 days I'm contracted.

Office lady says yes, she knows I'm on holiday, that's why she's changed my days

I say no, I'm using my holiday allowance, I'm not swapping days, I'm on holiday all week.

She says, no, if I want the whole week off, I need to book the whole week off - i.e. use up 5 days.

I've tried explaining until I'm blue in the face that I only need to book holiday to cover my actual contracted hours, if I'm just swapping days, I'm not on holiday. We're now in a stand off.

AIBU to think I am right? Aren't I?

I'm managing to completely confuse myself, so I'm not sure anymore confused

freddiefrog Tue 19-Mar-13 14:04:19

Yes, she's new

fengirl1 Tue 19-Mar-13 14:04:39

X-post but hopefully still helpful!

SmiteYouWithThunderbolts Tue 19-Mar-13 14:04:42

She's mad, you are right.

foxrivereight Tue 19-Mar-13 14:05:40

Is this woman for real ??!! shock

Surely no one is that thick ??confused

Please speak to someone else about this . And come back and let us know what happens <nosey>

FannyFifer Tue 19-Mar-13 14:06:05

I work 2 days a week, I book my holidays for those 2 days.

She is wrong wrong wrong.
Are you in a Union?

verytellytubby Tue 19-Mar-13 14:07:19

She's HR! Jesus. Copy in your boss. Her logic is bonkers.

DragonMamma Tue 19-Mar-13 14:07:55

I am astounded that she is HR. That's basic HR knowledge.

Beggar's belief.

ThingummyBob Tue 19-Mar-13 14:09:27

By her reckoning you will need 156 days holiday this year just to cover the days you don't work grin

freddiefrog Tue 19-Mar-13 14:14:48

I know, it's mad.

I've just emailed her again to reiterate I won't be working at all that week and will only use 2 days of my holiday allowance and copied in my boss

Hopefully that'll be the end of it


ballstoit Tue 19-Mar-13 14:16:16

YANBU but are you definitely contracted to work Wednesday and Thursdays, rather than contracted to work 2 days a week.

I used to work in emergency services call centre, working 35 hours a week on a shift basis. So, if I wanted to book a week off, I had to book 7 days off, whether I was due to be working those days or not, but only the days I would have been working were taken off A/L entitlement. If you didn't book the whole week off, then you could have rest days swapped at the last minute, even if you hadn't been expecting to work.

If your 'HR' lady has come from this type of environment, that may be why she's confused.

ThingummyBob Tue 19-Mar-13 14:16:27

I think thats proably best tbh.

Copy your boss into any communication regarding the holiday.

She'll soon realise and feel like a twat

OrbisNonSufficit Tue 19-Mar-13 14:17:56

YANBU, your office manager is an idiot. You're required to take leave when you don't want to work. Which only applies if you would have been working at that time normally. As other people have pointed out, people who work 5 days a week do not take 'leave' every weekend but still don't work.

I know from experience at our office that there are at least 2 different ways of putting part time workers into our system (yours may be the same) - two part time people I work with have been given 2 different ways of dealing with bank hols etc - one has extra holidays granted but has to put every bank hol as a leave day, the other one doesn't. So it's quite possible it's a weird system set up thing combined with a daft office manager. You may need to find a HR person with a brain to discuss it with.

Do they have the right to move your days around according to your contract? That seems odd to me.

freddiefrog Tue 19-Mar-13 14:19:37

I can't get through to her that

a) I'm only contracted to work for 2 days, so I only need to book 2 days leave

b) that if she swaps my days I don't actually need to book leave as I'm still working my contracted hours

c) if I use 2 days holiday and still work 2 days as she's swapped my days they then need to pay me 2 days overtime.

Shesparkles Tue 19-Mar-13 14:23:21

You're right and she's thick.

Do you work In the same place I do?

freddiefrog Tue 19-Mar-13 14:23:34

Yes, I'm definately contracted to work Weds and Thurs although I can and do swap if I/they need to.

The holiday entitlement is on top of bank holidays (although I have to save 2 days for Christmas shut down).

DontmindifIdo Tue 19-Mar-13 14:25:17

e-mail her back, ccing your boss (and ideally her boss) saying

Dear [idiot]

There seems to be some mix up on my annual leave request. I have requested X and Y days as annual leave. I have not at any point asked to swap my working days on that week or any other week.

I am contracted only to work on Wednesdays and Thursdays, I do not work any other days. As such, my holiday allowance has been pro-rated down to 14 days from 35 days. In order to take a week's leave, I need to use 2 days from my 14 total as my contracted week is 2 days, not 5.

My original total of 35 days translated into 7 weeks leave (needing to use 5 days per week requested), I understood my leave total was reduced to 14 days to reflect the fact that in order to take the same 7 weeks leave I would need to only use 2 days per week and therefore 14 days leave is the same number of weeks off. However, by your calculation, if I have to use 5 days leave in order to take a week off, I now only have less than 3 weeks leave per year, please clarify.

Obviously there has been a mix up along the way, so please can you confirm the following:
a) my contract states I only am employed to work on Wednesdays and Thursdays
b) my holiday allowance was reduced to 14 days from 35 to reflect the fact that I only work 2 days a week
c) that in order to book 2 days leave I need to use 2 days from my holiday allowance, not 5 days.
d) that my holiday request for X & Y date is being treated as a holiday request, not a request to alter my working days that week

Kind regards,


DontmindifIdo Tue 19-Mar-13 14:27:58

oh wait, just seen you'll sometimes do overtime, so change the second parra to read:

I am contracted only to work on Wednesdays and Thursdays, I am not contracted to work any other days.

freddiefrog Tue 19-Mar-13 14:32:25

Thank you!

Email sent!

DontmindifIdo Tue 19-Mar-13 14:34:22

oh and just seen you have messaged her and your boss.

Good good, I had this with HR because I also reduced the hours I worked each day, HR thought my total number of days holiday should also be reduced. I pointed out in order for that to be fair, for every day I had as annual leave I needed to be paid at the rate for someone working a full day. I also broke it down in an e-mail saying that rather than looking at the leave in terms of days, she should look at it in terms of hours, and that while I had 55% of the hours of a full time staff member, each day I took off required less hours as I didn't need to book until 6pm, just my finish time.

The really simply breaking it down in an e-mail worked. Which is why the "35 days translates into 7 weeks, 14 days translates into 7 weeks if I book 2 days per week, or you need to give me more days" might get it through to a thick person.

oh and do everything via e-mail so you can show it all to your boss if need be.

RobinSparkles Tue 19-Mar-13 14:38:24

You are right!

What an absolute wally! (Her, I mean).

Floggingmolly Tue 19-Mar-13 14:40:27

Office lady is a muppet who needs retraining.

Floggingmolly Tue 19-Mar-13 14:42:32

God, I've just read the whole thread. Why are so many thickos working in HR? confused

ffswhatnow Tue 19-Mar-13 14:44:43

Sadly it's people like this that give reason for HR to be nicknamed "human remains"

maddening Tue 19-Mar-13 14:56:35

You're right.

You should also get the bank holiday in lieu as far as I am aware (how they used to do at my old work after part time folk got union advice)

Takver Tue 19-Mar-13 15:02:46

"You should also get the bank holiday in lieu as far as I am aware "

Depends - as an employer you are allowed to include bank holidays within the 5.6 weeks minimum holiday.

Working out holiday for casual workers does my head in at the best of times (most of our staff work wildly varying hours depending on the time of year / childcare needs / our needs et al) so we just say "You get X days holiday for every Y days you work" and ignore bank holidays entirely otherwise I'd have a nervous breakdown . . . (Obviously they can take a bank holiday as leave if they want to.)

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