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to wonder why it's ok to insult slim people but not overweight people on MN?

(121 Posts)
RidingInCarsWithBoys Sun 17-Mar-13 21:55:41

Just for the record I don't think it's ok to insult anyone over looks/weight/height etc.

But seriously some of the comments I have read about slim people on here are just disgusting.

Slim people look "poorly", "aged" are "boring" etc.

For some reason it seems ok on here to make nasty comments directed at slim people, but if you dare make a comment about overweight people you will get flamed by the flames of hell.


garlicbrain Tue 19-Mar-13 01:45:55

Marilyn’s reported measurements (both studio and dressmaker claims) from, the official Marilyn website maintained by CMG Worldwide, the representative for Marilyn’s estate. They are: 37-23-36 (Studio’s Claim), 35-22-35 (Dressmaker’s Claim), and height: 5 feet 5 1/2 inches.

Marilyn went through a period of depression and ate compulsively, gaining enough weight to put her at 140 lbs. (The studio claims that Marilyn weighed between 115 and 120 lbs., at a height of 5’5 1/2″.) A weight of 140 at a height of 5’5 1/2″ would result in a BMI of 22.9, well below the cut-off BMI of 24.9 for ‘overweight.’ At 140 lbs. she was reportedly unhappy, but was still able to go out in public and be revered as a sex goddess.

From this site because it quotes verifiable sources.

35-22-35 would put her at a size 12 bust, size 6 waist and size 8 hips in contemporary standard sizing. She did, however, wear her clothes so tight that they regularly split. It's quite likely she was a top-heavy size 10.

RedToothBrush Tue 19-Mar-13 07:21:26

At a 35 bust, you actually measure the widest part of the bust, not under it.

I'm a 28F. My under bust is 28 and my bust measurement is 35. Marilyn is likely to be a 28 or 30 with a 22inch waist.

I have a nightmare finding clothes that fit. I have to wear things tight on the bust or they just look awful anyway. Its my shoulders that make it look bad as they are small compared to my bust.

A size 10 is too big for me.

EmmaBemma Tue 19-Mar-13 07:53:53

Every discussion on here about sizing and overweight/underweight seems to feature a debate about Marilyn Monroe's exact proportions. Why are we still so obsessed with this woman's body?

RussiansOnTheSpree Tue 19-Mar-13 10:44:17

I've just had a big old row with someone on Facebook who shared one of those 'NORMAL women' pictures. Load of old bollocks so it is. He justified it by saying his wife is large and can't get clothes in the shops to fit. So, apparently that gives him (someone I've known since I was a teen and who I thought was nice) the right to promote the idea that people like me aren't 'normal'. Well, I might be small (not just in girth but height too) but I've had 3 kids and I'm as normal and real as anyone else. (Obviously only in terms of body shape, I don't mind people pointing out that I'm far from normal in other ways wink )

Lizzylou Tue 19-Mar-13 10:54:38

I do tend to shake my head at the assumption all fat people 'stuff their faces'...and all slim people 'push a lettuce leaf around a plate'.

It's stereotyping, stupid and ignorant.

Worra has it spot on.

How many people on this thread have a clue what anyone else on the thread looks like? If my DH or close friend commented on my weight, seeing me often and knowing me, then I'd be bothered.

Why get so agitated about what others ignorantly generalise about different body shapes? They are obviously either trying to stir up shit or are talking rot!

Oh and I am the exact double of Gisele fwiw wink

Haberdashery Tue 19-Mar-13 11:51:07

RedToothbrush, I agree with every single word of what you've written.

And FWIW, Marilyn must have been more or less the same size as I am right now, only with a slimmer waist and a bigger bust (I'm about 35-26-36, bra size 30DD or 28E depending on brand). I am wearing a pair of size 8 trousers and they are a little baggy on the waist but snug around my hips. I am wearing a size 8 top, a size 8 sweater and size 8 pants. None of it is excessively tight anywhere (and I'm not bragging).

garlicbrunch Tue 19-Mar-13 12:13:18

EmmaBemma, I quote Monroe's sizes because it fascinates me to see how people will reframe a simple set of measurements to suit their own agenda [evilgrin]

Red, for example, you're straight in there with an incomprehensible rationalisation that Marilyn's bra size must have been a large-cup 28" meaning her bust was like yours? Or something confused Haberdashery seems similarly interested in the size of her breasts - which is irrelevant to dress size - perhaps also due to a need to tell us about her own. These threads are always about stealth boasting grin

* Disclaimer: I am nothing like Monroe and don't have unfeasibly large breasts.

HandlebarTash Tue 19-Mar-13 12:48:17

I'm 5'1" and a size 8/10. In my early twenties I was a size 6. I used to get a LOT of comments about how I should put some weight on, looked ill, etc.

At university my two overweight housemates cornered my then boyfriend and asked why he was with me, was he afraid of real women? Was he a peado who just liked little girls? He was very upset about that, and so was I when he told me.

My now sister in law, when we were first introduced, her first words to me were "I hate people like you. Skinny people, I mean."

KatyTheCleaningLady Tue 19-Mar-13 13:17:52

I judge someone as "too thin" when they are all teeth and eyes. Like their flesh has shrunk to the point of not quite being able to cover their skull. People who are dying or severely malnourished look this way.

It's really not about their waistline or thighs. A healthy person can have very thin legs and waist. If they don't have big glassy eyes and way too many teeth in their face, they look good, I think.

Haberdashery Tue 19-Mar-13 13:48:30

I don't have unfeasibly large breasts either! And if I did, I don't particularly think it would be a matter for bragging or otherwise, it would just be a fact, that's the whole point of this. I was actually pointing out where she DIFFERED from my body type.

RedToothBrush Tue 19-Mar-13 17:41:31

Unfeasibly large breasts. Grr. See. This is what I've had all my life. Its utterly frustrating (not to mention just rude). Comments like that after repeated use, do get people down and make you utterly self conscious and hate bits of your body. They are not 'unfeasibly large'. They are just what I happen to have. Why can't people accept they are 'normal'?

If my breasts are so 'unfeasibly large' perhaps I should have surgery to remove them. Perhaps Marilyn should have had too.

I have had people 'try and be helpful' (those are the polite ones) saying to go shop in children's shops as I don't fit 'normal' clothes. Which is a little difficult for the fairly obvious reason I have Women who were bigger don't generally like to be laughed at and told to go shop in the 'bigger size' shop. Because there's a fair chance they are 'normal' for them too. And should be being catered for by retailers.

The stuff about my bra size not even being real, was awful for years. Finally people are really starting to recognise my size as being a 'proper' size - and actually not that unusual surprisingly. You really should get over to the better bra threads and see how many people have similarly 'unfeasibly breasts'.

And tbh, Marilyn's bust size was 35". So is mine. Regardless of what my actual cup and back size are, the measurement is the same. So her actual size wouldn't make a huge deal of difference as the measurement all round is still the same. If a size 10 is too big up top for me, it is more than likely it would have been for her. Especially given the fact that the rest of her frame - indicated from her waist size - was small. Its not too much of an assumption from the information we do have, in the way of her clothes, photos and measurements.

If we can get a proper idea of what is perfectly natural and healthy - from one end of the spectrum to the other - then it gets rid of all this myth creating and women wouldn't be so paranoid about it. There are plenty of women out there who are bigger - yet completely and utterly healthy and NORMAL. Yet feel shit because they don't fit this imaginary ideal, that doesn't even exist beyond the realms of fantasy. Marilyn like every other fucker out there, would have a shit time trying to find something to fit on the high street cos she had a dimension or too that didn't fit with clothing sizing.

EVERYONE would be treated with a lot more respect and would be better catered for by retailers if we stop trying to fit the clothes and got the clothes to start fitting us instead! We are individuals not labels. And in 2013, particularly with the high street dying a slow death and modern technology improving to the extent that we have 3D printers appearing, is it such a demand to start challenging this attitude by retailers even more? Part of the reason certain bra sizes aren't more common is not because there isn't a demand - its because women wear the wrong size and put up with the discomfort - and even when its very clear that this is the case, people like M&S don't want to acknowledge it.

This is all about why I think its important to put Marilyn into proper context - precisely because she's rolled out of her grave so much. And is actually no more of a 'better' symbol than the celebrities of today who are routinely castigated for being 'too thin', 'too fat', 'not representative' etc etc. Perhaps her figure didn't reflect the period she lived in either. But equally she certainly wasn't a freak of nature either. She's not that different from what we see in Hollywood in 2013 - apart from one aspect. (From what I know, she is more likely to have ended up in porn than Hollywood today. Apparently 'unfeasibly large' knockers are frowned upon by modern day casting agents).

Truth is the same pressures existed in the 1950s as they do today. The fact we haven't got away from those, is rather miserable. She isn't accepted for what she was - by today's judgmental world - same as any other woman out there. In the words of the lady herself - "It's all make believe, isn't it?".

Until we do start accepting everyone for what they are and have to pretend they are something else, then yeah, we aren't really getting anywhere are we?

RedToothBrush Tue 19-Mar-13 18:20:20

Btw, stick Marilyn's measurements in this (22inches is actually too small for it)

Then look at the sizes it recommends for all the different stores by clicking on the button on the right.

Virtually every store comes out as recommending a 4 - 8. There are a couple of 10s as second alternatives but not as first choices.

twitchycurtains Tue 19-Mar-13 18:24:48

sherbetvodka grin

"reclaim her for smaller women" seriously?! FFS who cares what size you are, why do you need to reclaim a woman who has been dead for many many years and use her as some sort of role model for slimmer/smaller /whatever women. Can we just let the poor woman rest in peace?.

Why can't some slim women be happy in their own skin without having to put down women that are larger than them?. If you feel attacked by the "fatties" maybe, just maybe its because you are unable to feel good about yourself without putting others down.

I couldn't give a shiny shit what dress size another woman is, but if she starts making catty comments about me to make herself feel good then the gloves are off and she better be prepared for a few choice words of my own. If you can't stand the heat and all that shizz.

RussiansOnTheSpree Tue 19-Mar-13 18:32:12

Twitchy it's the "fatties" who make the catty comments and who are unable to feel good about themselves without putting others down. That's the whole point of this thread, and it's the whole point of those ridiculous and offensive 'normal women' and 'real women' facebook memes. There are no facebook memes claiming larger women aren't normal, or aren't 'real'. That says it all.

RedToothBrush Tue 19-Mar-13 18:47:34

I couldn't give a shiny shit what dress size another woman is, but if she starts making catty comments about me to make herself feel good then the gloves are off and she better be prepared for a few choice words of my own. If you can't stand the heat and all that shizz.

Have you actually tried to do that if you are smaller... oh wait yes the react you get for sticking up for yourself is...

...whats On This Thread bitching about 'stealth boasts' or 'unfeasibly large' breasts!


You are not 'allowed' to pass comment on the catty remarks... either on the internet or in person.

I'm not even 'allowed' to honestly pass comment on how good women look half the time if they happen to be bigger than me. As its perceived as insincere. Or whatever.

I'm actually not the enemy, and I do have things in common with other women. Surprisingly. Its just other people CHOOSE not to understand or believe this, and are happier to just be part of the problem.

hairtearing Tue 19-Mar-13 20:18:37

I'm quite surprised anyone is honestly trying to say that skinny women have a harder time off fat than vice versa.

StickEmUp Tue 19-Mar-13 20:26:01

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RussiansOnTheSpree Tue 19-Mar-13 22:15:51

As people are so very fond of telling us, the majority of women are fat. Until recently, they were certainly oppressed, by, mainly, men. Now they have found their voice. But instead of turning on the women-hating men who have been so vile for so many years, instead the bitterness and vile at that horrible treatment has been turned on the minority of women who aren't fat. Anyone who doesn't see this is either deluding the self or part of the hate mob. I am beyond fed up of being subjected to bullying 'real women' comments from people who are unhappy with their own bodies. People who are fine with their own bodies wouldn't make comments about mine. I certainly never make value judgements about other people's bodies and I'm happy to accept the research which suggests that in many ways the overweight are more healthy than the underweight. It's probably true. I've been pretty unwell recently and damn right I had very few physical internal reserves to see me through it, despite being a generally fit marathon running sort of person. But I'm buggered if I'm going to sit back any more and let people tell me I'm not a real woman just because they hate the way they look. And I'm not going to let them pollute the Internet with their stupid photos and slogans either- not without challenging them, anyway.

hairtearing Wed 20-Mar-13 10:25:30

I can understand that would be annoying russia, but its not even the tip of the iceberg compared to what overweight women/men have thrown at them everday. Its not an equal playing field.

RussiansOnTheSpree Wed 20-Mar-13 11:56:07

Hairtearing no it isn't. Nobody ever denies that overweight women are 'real women'. Nobody would dare - they are now a bullying majority. The fact that you can post that the overweight have a harder time of it insult wise with presumably a straight face says it all, really. I have colleagues who are significantly larger than myself. They often make comments about my size (and I am very much senior to them in the organisation). I just have to either ignore or laugh with them. If I was to make a comment about them I'd be in serious trouble. Of course, I don't want to because that would be rude and mean and silly. Being rude and mean and silly isn't an issue for them, though.

How many fb memes have you been subjected to recently with photos of size 8 or smaller women saying effectively if you don't look like this then you aren't 'normal' and you aren't a 'real' woman? I bet the answer is none.

ScentedNappyHag Wed 20-Mar-13 13:28:06

Russians, maybe there're no memes like that, but it's what we have thrust in our face all day long from every other angle- tv, magazines, movies, adverts for fucking dog food, clothes shops that have removed their plus size range from stores (looking at you, New Look)- everywhere, all the time the message is that fat is disgusting and faulty.
I completely agree that skinny people should DEFINITELY not receive abuse for their size, but can we not deny that the same is done towards larger people on a massive scale?
When strangers on the street make a hilarious joke about my weight, I have to pretend to laugh and hide the fact it's humiliating otherwise not only am I fat, but I have no sense of humour to. I'm not allowed to defend myself because it still ends up with me looking like a sub standard woman.
It would be lovely if we could all just get a grip and leave each other's size/fashion choice/sexual choices alone, but until we do, certain groups are going to get it harder than other's, and I don't think you can count slim women among them.

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