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To be shocked and appalled by this book

(152 Posts)
becsparkel Sat 16-Mar-13 23:45:52

I realise this has probably been raised before but I have only just become aware of this parenting book vile piece of shite, currently available for sale on amazon. The book advocates whipping babies as young as 4 months to "train" them to obey:

"At four months she was too unknowing to be punished for disobedience. But for her own good, we attempted to train her not to climb the stairs by coordinating the voice command of "No" with little spats on the bare legs. The switch was a twelve-inch long, one-eighth-inch diameter sprig from a willow tree."

Many more sickening quotes on this anti site Why Not To Train A Child

There's a petition to stop Amazon from selling it here: amazon refuse to carry books which advocate the physical abuse of children

Great blog piece here: amazon we find child abuse offensive

becsparkel Fri 22-Mar-13 09:21:13

The petition isn't asking anyone to burn or stop the publication of these books, it's simply asking Amazon not to stock them.

yes, there are people who will be prone to abusing children and will do so regardless but child abuse is also carried out by initially well meaning parents, who are influenced by books like these because they are vulnerable and looking for a solution.

This doesn't relate to the book directly but this is a good example of how normal people have been influenced by the Pearls: Blog post

christmasmum Thu 21-Mar-13 15:19:27

SGB, couldn't agree with you more. While this book is clearly vile I will never agree that censorship is a solution. Once you start burning books, where do you stop?

SolidGoldBrass Thu 21-Mar-13 15:01:06

OK, so there seem to have been three or four cases of parents actually killing their children by following the methods outlined in these stupid books. That's bad (though the number of parents who harm and kill their children because of ordinary malevolence or idiocy is a lot higher). However, it's also a further demonstration of how utterly toxic religion is, particularly to idiots - all the deaths relating to this book were among families who belonged to fundamentallist churches with a culture of encouraging violence within the family. A better way to deal with this sort of thing would be making life harder for all these vile nutjob churches (and non-CHristian religions for that matter) which condone and cover up child abuse.

becsparkel Thu 21-Mar-13 14:33:21

It's here pamelat: Petition. Thanks.

pamelat Thu 21-Mar-13 14:12:14

Just reading extracts of the book on this forum has made me cry.

I don't want to read through again to find the link to the petition, could someone please hyperlink freshly

VisualiseAHorse Thu 21-Mar-13 14:05:47

SGB - link, link, link.

Need any more ? There's plenty of articles out there stating how the children who died had parents who regularly beat them and followed the Pearl's 'method' of breaking a child's will.

somewherewest Thu 21-Mar-13 13:59:42

Memo to idiots who bought this book because they think this is the 'biblical' way to parent.

"The fruit of the Holy Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control". Note the lack of reference to wacking your ten month old with a stick. Idiots hmm

OhLori Thu 21-Mar-13 12:47:21

Thank you for posting OP. I will object to Amazon. However, I am wondering about them as a company. Is there nothing they won't do to sell their products. I complained about obviously fake reviews recently (by the author or publisher is hard to tell) but they never bothered to respond - I suppose because lots of stars sells books.

ginmakesitallok Thu 21-Mar-13 10:49:08

Jesus! With reference to a newborn...

"As the mother, holding her child, leans over the crib and begins the swing downward, the infant stiffens, takes a deep breath and bellows. The battle for control has begun in earnest. Someone is going to be conditioned. Either the tender-hearted mother will cave in to this self-centered demand (thus training the child to get his way by crying) or the infant is allowed to cry (learning that crying is counterproductive). Crying because of genuine physical need is simply the infant's only voice to the outside world; but crying in order to manipulate the adults into constant servitude should never be rewarded. Otherwise, you will reinforce the child's growing self-centeredness, which will eventually become socially intolerable"

TeWiSavesTheDay Thu 21-Mar-13 10:46:36

There have been several links discussing the 3 children who died already posted on the thread.

SolidGoldBrass Thu 21-Mar-13 10:40:04

TeWi: Really? Do you have a link to that? Even if there has been a case of someone who bought a copy of the book and a child subsequently died, it's extremely unlikely to have been direct cause and effect: a parent that stupid and cruel would have harmed or killed the child some other way without a book being involved.

ATJabberwocky Thu 21-Mar-13 10:25:29

This is disgusting! I've signed the petition, this should not be allowed.

TeWiSavesTheDay Thu 21-Mar-13 10:21:33

Children have died because their parents followed this book Solid.

SolidGoldBrass Thu 21-Mar-13 00:46:17

I haven't checked but I think Amazon should sell books on bomb-making and drug use, if people want to write them/buy them. I have very little patience with people who can't tell the difference between reading (or writing) a book about criminal or unethical activities and engaging in the activities: no book should ever be banned or burned or unavailable to adults.

cory Tue 19-Mar-13 22:27:26

Surely Amazon already exercises a fair bit of censorship in the sense of not stocking handbooks of a number of illegal activities? Or do they sell books on making illegal explosives or preparing drugs or books of advice for rapists? Is it a massive defeat for freedom of speech that they do not sell such books? After all, nobody would have to buy them...

becsparkel Tue 19-Mar-13 20:57:10

I get what you're saying but people do buy parenting books and do follow advice. Just because this stuff is off the scale bat shit crazy to us, doesn't mean it's totally off the scale to someone else, perhaps someone who has experienced similar parenting themselves. if we don't say anything, who will? And who's going to stick up for these children. Do you think Amazon would stock a book about training up your wife through regular beatings? Advocating that if no occasion arose during the day to merit a beating, you should instigate one? At least grown women can campaign, lobby etc. Children have no voice.

I also think it's important that these people know what vile fucks the rest of the world think they are.

Amazon have a policy not to stock offensive material, if this isn't offensive I don't know what is.

Ducklings45 Tue 19-Mar-13 20:27:32

Unless you mean Jim Bob and Michelle? Sorry, for some reason I thought you were referring to Josh and Anna with their two children who don't use that method!

Ducklings45 Tue 19-Mar-13 20:19:10

Schmoozer the Duggars don't use that method! confused

AmandinePoulain Tue 19-Mar-13 20:15:54

The last time I checked feminism, homosexuality and contraception weren't illegal though hmm

SolidGoldBrass Tue 19-Mar-13 20:07:42

So? Reading a book doesn't mean you have to follow its instructions. Anyone buying such a book and thinking it's 'general parenting advice' is probably too stupid to put their underwear on one leg at a time.

The trouble with censorship is that well-meaning whinyarses forget that once censorship is established it gets uses against nice people too. If Amazon is persuaded by a bunch of squealers to ban this book then what's to stop a bunch of rightwing homophoblic squealers mobilising their pals to make Amazon ban books on contraception/homosexuality/feminism?

RaspberrySchnapps Tue 19-Mar-13 18:00:18

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

becsparkel Tue 19-Mar-13 17:45:37

They've sold over 670,000 copies & the book has been linked to the deaths of 3 children in the US. Also, if you read the blog I linked, this isn't about censorship. We're not asking people to burn books, we're asking the largest book seller to not stock it, it's totally offensive.

AmandinePoulain Tue 19-Mar-13 16:10:43

SGB that is not the same at all. Sharing a kitten on fb has no possible connection to this case hmm. People are buying this book believing it to contain general parenting advice, not child abuse tips! You only have to read the reviews below to see that. So the authors are receiving royalties from these innocent shoppers, allowing them to continue their preachings angry

SolidGoldBrass Tue 19-Mar-13 16:01:06

Oh FFS, this is a book written by barking mad arseholes that hardly anyone would take seriously - anyone who actually thinks like this already belongs to one of those hideous cults anyway. It's the sort of thing I some people might buy as a wind-up gift, that's all. Now that any swivel-eyed troll with access to the interweb can hop on to Lulu and self-publish and, if s/he has the £50 necessary for an ISBN number, sell his/her dribblings on Amazon, the place is hoaching with wierd, loopy, 'offensive' books. No one has to buy them. No one has to take any notice of them. People with too much time on their hands finding one and having a big tanty about it are basically doing the same as those assorted dipshits who post 'Like this Kitten to Stop Cancer, if you don't share you don't CARE' on Facebook.

Amazon is morally and ethically correct to maintain a no-censorship policy. Freedom of speech includes the right to say things that other people disagree with.

becsparkel Tue 19-Mar-13 15:38:01

The petition covers all books that advocate child abuse, the Ted Tripp & Ginger Plowman books are also mentioned on the petition page - though I haven't read any excerpts, not sure I can stomach it. That's interesting about mumsnet not allowing amazon advertising.

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