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AIBU to be seething about David Nicholson

(75 Posts)
LadyPessaryPam Tue 05-Mar-13 22:31:21

Sir David Nicholson has refused to resign. I think he should be sacked and then prosecuted. It scares me that someone like him is in charge of the NHS. He presided over Mid Staffs and all those deaths. He runs the NHS that issues gagging orders as a matter of course when honourable people whistleblow. He is an utter disgrace. What do these people have to do to get the old tin tack?

MrsTwgtwf Tue 05-Mar-13 22:34:11

The World At One (Radio 4) had a good piece on this. An MP was alleging that that he had some kind of protection.

LadyPessaryPam Tue 05-Mar-13 22:36:59

I would imagine so. The fact that Call me Dave has confidence in him makes me sure the guy is a wrongun.

MrsTwgtwf Tue 05-Mar-13 22:38:20

^ This MP.

cerealqueen Tue 05-Mar-13 23:03:18

YANBU. I'm waiting for it all to explode. I am ex NHS and know that culture well. Him and his kind 'the career NHS managers' would have avoided talking to patients at all costs, hence him sending his go-betweens to talk to people concerned about Mid Staffs.

He is a disgrace. His determination to keep his job is about him wielding power and influence - he does not give a shit about patients. They are an annoying side issue.

Can't wait to see him go- he must go. There has to be accountability somewhere.

LadyPessaryPam Wed 06-Mar-13 07:23:10

Morning cereal. What on earth can ordinary people do about this? The government seem to ignore absolutely everything that we say. I cannot wait for the next election but that's a long way off sad

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 06-Mar-13 07:53:53

If, as is the received wisdom here, the government is hell-bent on getting rid of of the NHS (not a view I agree with, incidentally) then Nicholson should be meat and drink to them. He embodies everything that's wrong with the organisation - out of touch, impersonal, poor standards, closed shop mentality - and they could use him as a prime example of why it urgently needs to be reformed.

Dawndonna Wed 06-Mar-13 08:29:17

No, you're not. The gentleman concerned comes across as an arrogant, nasty piece of work. However, he's said he will ensure government policy will be carried through, a way of ensuring he ain't going nowhere, because CallmeDave needs someone on his side.

flatbread Wed 06-Mar-13 08:30:34

My suspicion is that there have been kick-backs and improper handling of NHS private contracts. Both Labour and Tory politicians may be involved. E.g., a spouse or child or son/daughter-in-law involved in companies getting the contracts.

It is a dirty business and Nicholson probably has the paper-trail.

I don't think Nicholson should resign.

He should be fired, prosecuted for criminal negligence and languish in jail along with his inept crony commissioning board.

flatbread Wed 06-Mar-13 08:35:28

Also, I couldn't believe that he said he never looked at mortality figures. That is just gross negligence. Is is unbelievable! That is a basic statistic that every hospital/board staff looks at on a regular basis across the world. It is a key, key indicator of performance and warning.

It is so depressingly clear that competence counts for fuck-all, otherwise how could such an unimpressive, pencil-pusher with no credentials whatsoever get to this position? It boggles the mind!

Ness1234 Wed 06-Mar-13 10:21:08

If there was any decency in the man he would have resigned, as he hasn't he should be sacked. Instead it appears he'll be allowed to stay on after his pathetic attempt at an apology followed no doubt by a pay increase. He is a disgrace.

williaminajetfighter Wed 06-Mar-13 10:36:20

I too am depressed about this. The reason that CEOs make the salaries they do is that they take responsibility for an entire organization and if there are failings the 'buck stops' with the CEO, Board of Directors etc. If David Nicholson says he's not responsible then really, who is? His overwork, underpaid junior managers? If Heads of organizations no longer manage risk and are willing to take on risk, what exactly do they do and why do we pay them what we pay them? Disgusting!

I think the fact that he comes across as arrogant with very little remorse is the saddest thing but as others have noted, there is a culture within the NHS and, of course, a culture of management which starts day 1 in management trainee jobs and in business school. I know, I've been there...

flatbread Wed 06-Mar-13 10:36:24

Meddie had posted this on another thread

Sit down with a cup of tea and read...and cry.

This is the NHS culture that DN and his ilk have promoted, to the detriment of patients and good doctors.

TheRivieraKid Wed 06-Mar-13 10:47:20

I used to work with a David Nicholson. He was a wanker too. <not helpful>

RedToothBrush Wed 06-Mar-13 10:47:46


What I would like to see is a GOOD argument for why he should be allowed to continue and NOT be prosecuted.

Does ANYONE have one? I'm yet to see one.

cerealqueen Wed 06-Mar-13 10:52:49

Phil Hammond is fantastic! He knows what he is talking about. Thing is, David Nicholson will do the bidding of the government, and do it well, because it is about money, and that is what he knows and understands. Its all about the finances and the targets.

The waste of money on reorganisations would make anybody weep. That and the money spent on management consultants. Our regional body in London spends about £25 million a year on them.

iseenodust Wed 06-Mar-13 10:59:39

Agree with Flat. Comparative tables of mortality (reflecting case mix/age etc) were definitely in use in his time and before. He should be pushed out.

flatbread Wed 06-Mar-13 11:03:27

I don't think he understands finances or targets well either.

There is nothing wrong with having a focus on finances and targets. Every successful private healthcare group/hospital is savvy regarding financial solvency.

From all accounts, DN has no idea how to manage, promotes losers like him, bullies competent clinicians and others who disagree with him and fudges numbers to cover his arse.

As a comparison, I met some senior people at Medicare, the US government equivalent. They were either PhDs or medical doctors with business training. Highly competent and impressive people.

scaevola Wed 06-Mar-13 11:04:21

Is this one to blame the Tories for though?

Here's e Guardian from when he was appointed in 2006 (ie under previous Government) and his only known political affiliation (ie previous party membership) was Communist.

working9while5 Wed 06-Mar-13 11:10:18

^I don't think Nicholson should resign.

He should be fired, prosecuted for criminal negligence and languish in jail along with his inept crony commissioning board. ^

I agree.

I am considering resigning from the NHS because I have had such a difficult time myself as a patient this year, and I recognised in my own treatment several systemic failures. To have someone like this as its "figurehead" makes me want to be sick. If he gets away with this... I really don't even want to be treated on the NHS anymore, and it really upsets me as I know that so many people are working so hard for the benefit of patients but with so many bad practices going unchecked, it just isn't as safe as it should be.

LadyPessaryPam Wed 06-Mar-13 11:18:06

Wow is this 100% MN consensus. Surely CallMeDave should take note of that?? Being as he is so so in touch with the women of the UK [snigger]

I totally despair, this issue crosses party boundaries, it's a matter of common decency and justice IMHO. And still we are ignored.

amillionyears Wed 06-Mar-13 11:22:10

Just wanted to add my support to this thread.
I dont know all the details.
But if they are correct, then it is precisely people like him that are presiding over the NHS problems, and are indirectly killing people.

And apparently he still has the support of David Cameron?

MrsTwgtwf, what sort od protection are they meaning?
I will read your link.

ppeatfruit Wed 06-Mar-13 11:36:17

Yes I totally agree LadyPessary Anyone who has the confidence of David Cameron has a BIG problem .

LadyPessaryPam Wed 06-Mar-13 11:42:18

Cameron has a track record of bad judgement,(Brooks, Coulson etc etc) it is one of his more endearing features when compared to his abysmal leadership ability, his untrustworthiness and his incompetence.

amillionyears Wed 06-Mar-13 11:58:35

Are freemasons involved?

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