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to think the south east has started to expel the poor

(269 Posts)
ubik Thu 14-Feb-13 13:19:23

Basically Camden Council cannot cover the housing benefit for these families due to government cap on benefits. These families would have to find an extra £90/week to make up the shortfall. As I understand it, there is nowhere in the south east cheap enough for these people to live.

So they are considering moving them to a cheaper region up north, hundreds of miles away from their families, schools, jobs, friends, neighbours.

I find this incredibly depressing as someone who grew up in a normal family in London.
Is the south east expelling the poor?

LessMissAbs Thu 14-Feb-13 13:25:34

There are a lot of people who move somewhere cheaper to live. And a lot of people who can't afford to live in London.

CogitoErgoSometimes Thu 14-Feb-13 13:28:09

YABU. There are still plenty of moderately-priced places to live in the South East. Central London may be very exclusive but there are a lot of less fashionable corners where rents are lower. Stories about councillors looking to shift families to the barbarian wastes of 'Oop North' are greatly exaggerated and usually don't lead to anything in reality.

Of course, many of us who did the trip in reverse once upon a time looking for better job prospects and a bit of prosperity, don't see what all the fuss is about. Dick Whittington-like we left family and friends behind and still survived. It's one reason I admire immigrants who are prepared to move to a whole other country for a better life.

Dahlen Thu 14-Feb-13 13:28:47

Im afraid I think this will only change when the end-result is that the SE's wealthy realise that there is no one left to do the NMW wage jobs in the area.

High turnovers in communities result in reduced social cohesion and increased crime. It's not going to be pretty.

On the plus side, after all the carnage we may well end up with a fairer society, and we should find that many more places outside the SE become good places to find employment and cheaper to live. Although that could take decades.

Rhiannon86 Thu 14-Feb-13 13:29:44

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

TheNebulousBoojum Thu 14-Feb-13 13:30:00

As a teacher, I moved from London to up North because I couldn't afford a home or a family down South. Sometimes that's how things go, you make new friends and neighbours and there are good schools up there too.
Economic migration is one of the features of this country's history, and no, it isn't fair that the poor gave fewer choices than the rich.

calandarbear Thu 14-Feb-13 13:30:14

It's not nice to have to move but many people have to do it.
We can't afford to live by our friends and family so live in a much less desirable area of the next town.
That said if all the 'poor' people leave an area I do wonder who will do the low paid low skill jobs.

TheNebulousBoojum Thu 14-Feb-13 13:31:55

'the end-result is that the SE's wealthy realise that there is no one left to do the NMW wage jobs in the area.'

NMW jobs here tend to be done by the thousands of unemployed teenagers and graduates who are still living at home.

DontmindifIdo Thu 14-Feb-13 13:34:10

YABU - as are Camden council - having to send people to Liverpool? WTF? Or they could tell them that there's lots and lots of properties to rent privately in the South East that are within budget - hell there's lot avaiable in the London outskirts - that these people could move too or pay the difference themselves.

Camden isn't a cheap part of London. That doesn't mean the only alternative is to move to the other end of the country.

EuroShagmore Thu 14-Feb-13 13:35:44

There are plenty of cheaper places to live in London and the South East than Camden which is both central and "trendy" (although not to my taste). I don't see anything wrong with people having to move to a cheaper part of London because they can't afford where they are. I'm sure it's lovely to live in Kensington, but I couldn't possibly afford it, so I will stick to my somewhat unfashionable corner of SE London.

Vicky2011 Thu 14-Feb-13 13:40:21

London expelled the middle classes years ago. Has for a long time been impossible to buy or rent anything vaguely close to a family home in a safe-ish area of London unless you have a very high income or are not earning at all so that it's covered (or was covered) by HB. Add childcare costs into the mix it's even more impossible.

ubik Thu 14-Feb-13 13:48:01

"Camden council said that it would shortly be contacting 761 households, comprising 2,816 adults and children, because the coalition's benefit cap – which limits total welfare payments to £500 a week for families – will mean that they will be unable to afford their current accommodation or any other home in the south-east

CogitoErgoSometimes Thu 14-Feb-13 13:49:47

Agreeing with Vicky 2011. I live in a town about 25 miles out of London and, whenever new neighbours move in, they always seem to be younger couples with small children trading in a small, overpriced London flat for a semi-detached, bit of a garden and a season ticket. I also know that I could trade in the semi-detached, move back home to Lancashire and probably buy something the size of Southfork complete with swimming pool for the same money.... It's all relative.

ubik Thu 14-Feb-13 13:50:45

That affects 900 schoolchildren

By the way, DP and I moved 400 miles away from London so we could afford a bigger house and to have a family. The flipside of this is that there are fewer jobs and wages are lower, also increased strain due to no family nearby and childcare.

CogitoErgoSometimes Thu 14-Feb-13 13:51:00

"any other home in the south-east "

That's just rubbish. The "South East" includes everything from Stevenage to Slough. Hardly top-priced locations.

mirry2 Thu 14-Feb-13 13:52:03

The south east is extremely overcrowded compared to other parts of the country.

hellsbellsmelons Thu 14-Feb-13 13:54:51

Well I moved away from London because of house prices.
Thousands of people have to do it!!

Auntmaud Thu 14-Feb-13 13:56:08

2k a MONTh . Jeez. Thank god for the Tories and the cap!

TryDrawing Thu 14-Feb-13 13:59:46

What? They're sending the poor up here? Oh the horror!! <faints>

DontmindifIdo Thu 14-Feb-13 14:00:16

hmm, how big a property do these people need if there's nothing suitable in the price range at all in the South east? (which takes in areas including the home counties). For instance, I could find a 3 or 4 bed house to rent in Kent for £900 a month. (Leaving over a grand a month to live off, a lot of people live off a lot less)

Are we actually talking about a small number of very large families? Are we actually talking about people who've had a very large number of DCs on the understanding someone else will fund them?

erowid Thu 14-Feb-13 14:04:36

Its not great but sometimes it has to be done.

We moved further north when we realised that for a similar property and living costs were almost half what we were paying when we were in the south west.

Owllady Thu 14-Feb-13 14:04:44

I don't think we need to get personal about who it might or might not concern but I think for most working families 2k in rent is an amount they just would not be able to afford. I live in the home counties too (50 odd minute train ride into central london) and you can rent a 3 bed for £900 p/m as we do

fromparistoberlin Thu 14-Feb-13 14:09:38


its Camden FFS, a high cost Borough

Most people cant afford to live there!!!

London is full of low cost boroughs and suburbs

Orwellian Thu 14-Feb-13 14:15:03


Firstly, they are not "poor" they are just dependent on benefits. Their benefits (paid for by working taxpayers, most of whom cannot afford to live in Camden themselves) are going to to be capped at £500 per week, the equivalent of a pre-tax salary of £35,000 PER YEAR!!!!. That is not poor in the least and many workers have worked bloody hard to achieve a salary of £35k!

Secondly, many, many thousands of families who are in work and claim no benefits cannot afford to live in Camden and live according to where their after tax salary will allow them. Many families have moved out of London because they cannot afford to live there, especially not Central London.

There is absolutely no reason why families whose total benefits amount to more than £500 per week at present should have more right to live in London than working families who don't receive benefits.

It is absolutely topsy turvy that families not in work or heavily subsidised by benefits should have more sympathy than other families who pay their own way.

Working families who get no or little benefits have to move all the time if circumstances dictate, meaning their kids have to leave their school and friends. Middle income households have been moving out of London for years because they cannot afford it. Why are households currently receiving £500+ from the taxpayer seen as more deserving than working households and what is so terrible about cutting your cloth according to your means?

PessaryPam Thu 14-Feb-13 14:15:22

It's ethnic cleansing I tell ya!

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