To say he can't go to stag do if there are going to be strippers?(696 Posts)
I'm sorry if this ends up being long; I will try to keep it as concise as possible.
Last year DP went to a stag do (first one that has come up whilst we have been together). It was one of his closest friends, and one that I previously liked and respected. They were away for 2 nights. I had wondered if some sort of strip thing might be involved but I thought probably not as the friend was not that kind of man and DP assured me when he got back that there was nothing of the kind. I later found out (through my scarily good investigation and interrogation!!) that this was not the case. On the first night they had been to a strip club and on the second night there were topless waitresses at their apartment for about 3 hours. This info came out bit by bit. Each time DP would insist there was nothing more to tell, then I found out something else. Eventually I think I got a full confession out of him but it was difficult to be sure as he had lied so many times about it. I also got out of him that there had been topless waitresses at a work party he had attended some time before (I had suspected something wrong and he had always denied it before.) He claimed all this was not of his doing, it was not really of interest to him and he just went along with it because they were in a group and he didn't want to make a fuss etc etc. If he had had a lap dance, I would have broken up with him (friend had a lap dance and the man has gone down a lot in my estimation.) As it was I nearly broke up with him anyway. He knew how much I hated strippers and how I would feel about it, and he did it anyway. But I think the most damaging thing was the lying. I trusted him before, and he had destroyed all that.
We got over it and agreed that if there was anything like this again he would tell me the truth and face the music. He understands how much more damaging it was that he lied about it. Since then, I have been to a work party where there was a male stripper. I didn't know in advance but I did know once I got there and I could have come home. It seemed a bit hypocritical, but I went anyway. I just sat at the back, while some of the married women in my group, went up on stage, straddled the stripper, took their wedding rings off, etc etc. That made me think that I wasn't so worried about DP being present in a large room where women were stripping, it was how he behaved and the interaction that would bother me. Hence why I was more upset about the topless women in the apartment than the ones in the strip club. FWIW I believe he would have behaved in a similar way to me in his situation. But his friend having that lap dance upset me, and made me think you can't trust any man, even the ones who seem nice and like they really love their partners.
Now he has his DB's stag party coming up. It's in the city where we live, but some people will be coming from elsewhere so there will be an apartment rented again. He has said he will tell the truth about it this time. He has admitted that the best man is planning something to do with strippers but nothing is booked in yet. I'm already feeling upset about it already and I just don't want him to be around strippers at all. WIBU to say, if that is happening, I don't want you to go at all?
Strawberry didn't say her Eastern European colleagues were trafficked. She said they were mostly prostitutes. That may imply trafficking to some, but it's not a given by any means. I doubt a high-end club would knowingly use trafficked workers. I do know of places where some or all of the dancers/prostitutes are slaves, but they aren't the slickest of venues.
So delboy. You said earlier that if there was any evidence of people being trafficked into strip clubs you'd change your mind about them. Strawberry worked in a club so has first hand experience like you, and says it happened. So have you changed your mind? Or do you think she's lying?
I wouldn't be bothered about my fella going to a strip bar but would not be happy about them renting an apartment and having topless waitresses
Great post, Strawberry. Thank you. I wish we had more genuine posts from women who really have worked in such 'prestigious' clubs, instead of various versions of the lies dancers are instructed to tell.
FWIW, I'm twitchy about the academic snobbery running through this thread, too. It's not uncommon for female students to work in a sex trade. Depressing but true. In fact, the interview for my night club job consisted entirely of a visual once-over; they assumed that all students have basic literacy and maths, so appearance was the only potential block on recruitment. Luckily for me this was before stripping became a high-street service, otherwise I might have had to consider it. I've no idea what I would have done if so. I feel for students today.
"I don't think that the clients at LDC's actually care which dancers are addicts / trafficked / neither of those."
I agree with this, Latara.
And yes Del, why isn't women's rights your concern? Is it because if women achieve absolute equality to men, your inadequacy will become even more apparent?
I don't think that the clients at LDC's actually care which dancers are addicts / trafficked / neither of those.
"Ah just keep with the insults anyfucker. You stay classy now, i think we're done dont you
As to why Im not championing womens rights is pretty much because its not my concern. But glad to see you're doing your bit marmalade. Bitching on the internet bringing down the patriachy one key stroke at a time. Shame you dont feel strong enough to get up of your arse and do something about it. Keep up the good fight eh"
what a frightful little man. Still, he's working in the right place.
The awful thing is that these places are licensed by the (in my town anyway) corrupt local council, who the criminal club owners give backhanders to.
The local council & police turn a blind eye to everything - it all stinks.
But delboy why isn't women's rights your concern? Don't you care about how women are treated? Don't you care about women being trafficked?
It does seem like ultimately you don't give a shit about anything other than justifying your role in the sex industry.
So glad you don't have a daughter.
I don't think that the clients at LDC's actually care which dancers are addicts / trafficked / neither of those.
Sadly many men (& the few women) who attend LDC's, either regularly or on drunken lad's nights really don't care who the dancers are or they like to ignore the truth.
"hence my call out to Del Boy to use his woman-championing skillz on the Relationships Board
but he seems strangely reluctant...."
He is concerned about the women and their rights but only the rights that enables them to make the choice to strip for men, apparently.
< shock horror >
I have ruined yes ruined some relationships (with sexual partners and otherwise) because of my views about the Sexual Services Industry and the objectification of women
do I consider them really lost ?
Latara, I have put up with my share of shit from men in other ways
hence my call out to Del Boy to use his woman-championing skillz on the Relationships Board
but he seems strangely reluctant....
Latara, nobody here is denying that some women work in LDC's and suffer no long lasting harm
My problem is the people who frequent them have no idea which ones they are
and if they believe every story of the Happy Clappy PHD-funding dancer they are at best stupid and at worst uncaring that their orgasm could be funded by all sorts of scary shit
No AF, you're DONE.
The man has spoken.
Regarding relationships - lots of women put up with a lot of shit before they say 'no more' & yes anyfucker it's great that you obviously feel confident enough not to put up with men or tolerate shitty behaviour.
I just wish more of us could be the same; personally i don't have a partner right now so i'm aiming to be less of a pushover in future with boyfriends definitely.
Del...how do you know the women on this thread are not otherwise championing women's rights ?
You keep your keyboard stroking habit for yourself
"You stay classy now"
Says the lapdancing advocate.
Delboy, do you know that you can do things via internet AS WELL AS doing stuff IRL? Hmmm? Did you know that? just like you can post on the internet AND go to Spearmint Rhino and pay for a titty jiggle. We all have lives away from the internet. And I can bet that mine is more productive than yours.
cross posted with you Latara
I am very sad to think of you squashing your own beliefs to hold on to a partner
it's ok to stand up for yourself...and if he walks, he's an arsehole and always was
Also many of the women dancers are drug addicts or users.
However i know a woman who was a dancer at an LDC by choice who didn't use drugs; but she makes no secret of the fact that it was for the money & also in a weird way for the attention - i don't understand why she wanted that kind of attention from pervy men & have never asked her (it would be interesting to know though).
Ah just keep with the insults anyfucker. You stay classy now, i think we're done dont you
As to why Im not championing womens rights is pretty much because its not my concern. But glad to see you're doing your bit marmalade. Bitching on the internet bringing down the patriachy one key stroke at a time. Shame you dont feel strong enough to get up of your arse and do something about it. Keep up the good fight eh
Me Latara ?
I am no more educated than you, I am sure
But I do take the time to read, and think about what I argue against, and resist taking the line of least resistance
it is much easier to excuse men their little foibles, to simper about "men will be men", to compete with other women to keep a man, to pretend to be "cool" to not piss off a boyfriend who wants to use women sexually with impunity
not for me, never was, and that was before I ever had an A level to my name
I hope I won't out myself here but I also worked in a strip club, del, possibly the biggest and most 'prestigious' in the country as a waitress. It was my only option at the time and paid well enough for me to get myself back on my feet after a year, it makes me feel sick thinking about it now and the fact I have two dds doesn't help.
I also have a very different experience than you do, maybe you didn't see as much from the doors/behind the bar...which was it again? Most of the women that worked there were Eastern European and they were mostly also prostitutes. There was touching, people could come and buy private areas and women for hours (which many very wealthy businessmen did) and the cameras were switched off. The men were all letches and it was repulsive, I didn't see one example of a nice man.
You are right with the range though - businessmen in strip clubs are arseholes showing off to their clients/employees power hungry evil men, the stag parties who are letches and want the extras without paying for it, the loners who I always had a slight suspicion they could be serial killers...not once did I see a first timer who wasn't eager to get straight into a booth and have some vagina in his face though.
I am probably best not to get started on the criminals the clubs have to pay for protection.
Well you sound a lot more educated than i am anyway.
But yes it's true that some of the women in clubs are trafficked - i know of a club owner who trafficked girls in from Russia. He also has a reputation locally as a cocaine trafficker.
If i'm really honest i wouldn't like a partner of mine going to a LDC because it's also true (i've heard for a fact from people who know) that prostitution takes place there, but i'd probably put up with it & hope my partner wasn't involved - that's because i have low self-esteem myself about men & relationships, sadly.
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