To think that many parents believe their kids can do no wrong?

[superstarheartbreaker]

Of course it's natural to think that our children are wonderful and amazing but I work in a school, I have done teacher training and I am amazed at how many parents cannot believe that their children are merely human and therefore just as capable of wrong doing as the next child.
So far I have had a mother complaining that I 'pick' on her child. To which I replied that if her offspring wasn't so badly behaved then I wouldn't have to discipline her.
I sent someone out for throwing a major sulk when I asked her to do some work and to get her feet off the table (she wouldn't). Her mother has now insisted that she no longer comes to my tutorial.
I am constantly hearing stories about parents who refuse to acknowledge the wrongdoings of their young.
Surely we do our kids a great disservice by NOT bollicking them when they have done wrong or by not acknowledging that are even capable of wrong doing in the first place?

Plus I also think that as a generation we are all very confused as to how best discipline our kids...me included. The consistency thing...I'm no expert.

[mumzy]

YANBU
www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/9852124/Schoolboy-excluded-for-performing-Nazi-salute-in-class.html is this one of your pupils BIW?

[AgentZigzag]

The version the parent will hear is going to be different to what actually happened, whatever the age.

And most parents will try to be objective in a situation where it's nigh on impossible to be objective.

If I genuinely thought a teacher was being unfair to DD I would say something, why wouldn't I? That wouldn't mean I wasn't acknowledging she can be a PITA, but who else should she turn to if she was having problems at school with a teacher?

It would also depend on what you mean by a bollocking? That to me would be you bawling them out.

[HollyBerryBush]

Tends to swing two ways , 10% of the 'my precious can do no wrong' 10% of the 'I really couldnt give a shit' and 80% reasonably normal co-operative and engaged parents.

I dont knowwhats worse, the "dont give a shits" or the "my precious" ones. My precious I think as they tend to suck the life blood out of you with their micro managing every aspect - at least the I dont give a shit let you get on with the job in hand.

[Doogle2]

YANBU. I have a friend who just doesn't see the mistakes her children make. There always seems to be a lot of incidents involving them but it is never their fault. Always the victim. I've seen how her children act when she isn't there and I was shocked.

[echt]

I find that most parents are very supportive of school actions, but the ones who aren't challenge every single thing the school does, take up lots of time with lengthy meetings, and then, unsurprisingly, their DC spicks up on the support for their behaviour and become an entitled little princ(ess).

These are the ones you remember.

[AgentZigzag]

Not sure what I think about the article in the link.

I wouldn't be happy my DC being branded a racist, it's such a serious thing with wide reaching consequences, and it sounds like only the people who were there could make a judgement call on what he actually did/meant by it.

I respect most teachers, but I wouldn't automatically take their word over the word of my DC.

Loving the double newspaper sad face photo though

[ClippedPhoenix]

I also work in the childcare industry and I just think to myself blimey what are you bringing up then.

When in your care you can only do what you know to be right and detatch.

[ThreeBeeOneGee]

YANBU. I am a parent, not a teacher, but I see more and more of this happening. Protecting a child from the consequences of their actions is not good parenting.

[ThreeBeeOneGee]

m.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/01/why-parents-need-to-let-their-children-fail/272603/

[OxInABox]

Gosh, it really is outrageous that that boy's father thinks he didn't do anything racist. Also, the boy's story sounds like a load of bullshit - I've heard similar silly "But I didn't do it! I was really doing this incredibly specific thing which I've thought up in detail after the event, in a misguided attempt to excuse myself from having done something embarrassing!" stories before.

Nevertheless, the boy's father is reasonable in demanding answers about the sudden, unexplained escalation of the punishment - it was originally only a two-hour detention and not an exclusion for the day. Why the change?

[echt]

How is making a Hitler salute "racist"? Unless the teacher was Jewish, this is not possible and I would support the parents in contesting the suspension on those grounds. By all means punish for cheeking a teacher, but the parents could win on this because of ill-defined reasons on the part of the school.

[marriedinwhite]

Aah in my eyes my DC are perfect.

Reasons I removed dd from a secondary school after two years. PE teacher ignored the medical advice of a consultant surgeon and when I challenged was bawled out because I challenged. Then we had the dreadful disruptive behaviour of five or six girls who diluted learning and who had excuse after excuse made for them - they then beat up another girl and set fire to part of the school and were not permanently excluded. Then we had the maths teacher who couldn't teach and we spent £700 on a private tutor. Then we had the day when dd was taken ill and reported it to a teacher and was told to stop making a fuss and go to the toilet where she collapsed and fainted and the teacher didn't raise any alarm when she didn't return; the next teacher didn't raise any alarm when she wasn't at the next lesson and she was found groaning by a friend at the start of break. And even then it was all a "bother" for the school.

Fuck me - yes some parents do expect too much don't they. So glad we had enough money to move her to the independent sector. That by the way was an Ofstsed Outstanding top 100 school - hahahahahahahahahaha. Standards - I don't think so.

Education and its standards in the UK need a root and branch sort out afaic. Long live Gove and the return of high standards.

[marriedinwhite]

And actually OP as an educated teacher perhaps you would care to note that I am not a goat and I do not have kids. I have children. Highest common denominator amongst what should be a respected profession and all that eh!

[AgentZigzag]

That's saying that a nazi salute can always be taken as racist, but it can be meant as a general 'you're a fascist' action echt, without necessarily directly linking it to what the nazis stood for.

And I would say that's true, it's not something I would use, but I could imagine a DH doing it with a smile on his face to his DW if she was ordering him to do something IYSWIM?

[HollyBerryBush]

How is making a Hitler salute "racist"? Unless the teacher was Jewish, this is not possible

Unless the teacher is a black, homosexual, disabled gypsy perhaps?.

The Third Reich stood fora lot more than hatred of Jews

[superstarheartbreaker]

I do believe that unreasonable discipline should be challenged of course but I hardly think that sending a child to time out where they can get space to cool down warrents taking them away from an important bit of education. I guess it is always the tricky ones I remember!

[AgentZigzag]

But how likely is it that the lad fully understood the complex political and moral issues wound up in that one action Holly?

Isn't it more likely that he'd have a cursery knowledge of WWII and not know how offensive his actions were because he was just being an idiot and playing to the class?

Some 14 YOs are idiots, that doesn't mean they're racist or should be denied an education because of it.

[OxInABox]

I'm Jewish, so that alters my perspective somewhat...

[superstarheartbreaker]

I went to school in the independant sector marriedinwhite and many of the children were adly behaved. I would also like to point out that many of the parents whose little children can do no wrong come from very well off familes.
I don't think it matters if you are talking about children from state or private education. There is a certain type who is scared of discipline irrespective of socio-economic background. I call it a cotton wool complex.

[Helltotheno]

YANBU at all OP. It also makes it very difficult to deal with a parent when there is an issue at school involving their child; basically forget ever solving an issue like that without falling out, and at this point, I'll take falling out thanks. Some people are incredibly deluded about their children.

[ThreeBeeOneGee]

At my children's state primary school they study WWII in Y6. My 12 y old and 10 y old would both understand the significance of that gesture.

[OxInABox]

marriedinwhite - I actually had a similar experience to your DD. I was physically assaulted by one of my primary school teachers who took a (perhaps rational - I was one of those kids who would point out her spelling mistakes) dislike to me. I'm not talking a slap - I'm talking the full-on 'grab by scruff of neck and shake for five minutes while screaming'.

So I got taken out of that school after my (not inconsiderably scary) DF marched in and belaboured the headmaster at length, and was lucky enough to get sent to private school at a time when impecunious parents could get assistance for that sort of thing.

Incidentally, I always felt my DF gave that particular head teacher a rough time. He was a good guy and I remember wanting to grow a big beard like the one he had.

[marriedinwhite]

OxINABox I don't think the two situations are in the least similar. My daughter was being literally crushed and is quiet, polite and compliant. She has blossomed in a much kinder and much more sensible environment. I'm not talking about a tiresome child who deserved it; I am talking about serious safeguarding issues and negligence that required disciplinary action against some staff.

[echt]

Good point, HollyBerryBush.

I see what you're say ZigZag, but I was disputing the grounds of the school's accusations. They were factually wrong. FWIW, I'd love to see that kid's feet not touch the ground, but the school has to get it right or it discredits genuine claims of racist behaviour.

[AgentZigzag]

I know my 12 YO DD would understand, or at least think about, what was behind a salute associated with the nazis ThreeB.

But you can't say that's the case with this lad, I would say it's quite common for children to say/do things they've seen without knowing fully what they're doing.

I know I have, and DD comes home from school saying other DC have said things it's obvious they don't know what they mean (from using it in the wrong context/not getting the wording quite right etc).