To think that many parents believe their kids can do no wrong?(110 Posts)
Of course it's natural to think that our children are wonderful and amazing but I work in a school, I have done teacher training and I am amazed at how many parents cannot believe that their children are merely human and therefore just as capable of wrong doing as the next child.
So far I have had a mother complaining that I 'pick' on her child. To which I replied that if her offspring wasn't so badly behaved then I wouldn't have to discipline her.
I sent someone out for throwing a major sulk when I asked her to do some work and to get her feet off the table (she wouldn't). Her mother has now insisted that she no longer comes to my tutorial.
I am constantly hearing stories about parents who refuse to acknowledge the wrongdoings of their young.
Surely we do our kids a great disservice by NOT bollicking them when they have done wrong or by not acknowledging that are even capable of wrong doing in the first place?
Plus I also think that as a generation we are all very confused as to how best discipline our kids...me included. The consistency thing...I'm no expert.
marriedinwhite you always seem to pop up on these school based threads, telling the same story about how badly your daughter was treated at a state school which was outstanding & using this as some kind of indicator that all state schools are shit. I am sorry for your daughters experiences & agree that if she was my child I would have moved to a different school, but 'outstanding' means 'good test results' and very little else. There are many, many schools that you could have moved her to in the state sector (some not even outstanding!) which would have been far better at caring for your daughter. I think your comments to oxinabox were horrifically offensive. Oh, and Michael Gove is not (as you seem to think) the saviour of state education. He is a dick. X
Re the nazi salute not being racist-
I'm a secondary teacher and some boys (it does seem to be a male thing?) draw swastickas or do the nazi salute and I always take it very seriously, not because I think that they are necessarily racist, but because they need to understand that these are symbols of racism and that they might be perceived as racist if they use them humorously. Kids like to push boundaries and need to learn the implications of their actions whether they meant it that way or not. I'm actually trying to educate them cos that's my job.
Re the internal exclusion meh possibly ott but there could be a more complicated backstory. Re parents who deal with their precious darling getting an internal by printing an article in the Torygraph
I am constantly astounded at the number of parents who say to me 'I know my DC and he/ she never tells lies'. What, at 14 years old? Yeah, right.
I am not saying that all teachers are perfect - far from it. But kids tell half a version of something because they know parents will jump up and down, and then wonder why issues develop.
Agent ZigZag I never said that I expected all teachers to manage him but I do expect that a school to strive to keep staff and pupils safe...
Jeez there are days when I can't manage him so IWBU to expect the school too... However if I had a teacher say 'well he needs to learn to behave' (which I have) then my reply would be 'ok this is how I manage him... What do suggest? How can we work together to change this behaviour?'
After 5yrs in the school system my expectations are so low that I am continually surprised that he survives the school day.
Whether the school was right in interpreting it as a nazi salute or not, the parent who tries to defend it by saying he was merely making fun of the teacher doesn't get a lot of sympathy from me.
If ds did that I'd expect him to be disciplined and after school detention would seem quite reasonable. The boy was only put in the exclusion unit because he repeatedly failed to turn up for his detention- again, I'd expect that to happen to ds too and wouldn't make a fuss.
From the article, you might be justified in thinking that an exclusion unit is some kind of medieval torture cell. All it is, is a classroom where children who for one reason or another cannot be in class, work quietly with a TA and with extra teacher support if they need it. Dd spends most of her time in the exclusion unit atm because she has been ill and isn't doing the same number of GCSEs as the rest of the class. It's not some horrendous place of punishment. The punishment should be the parent's reaction when they find their child has been sent their for misbehaving.
The boy in the photo looks guilty as hell imo.
In general I think that I know my kids pretty well and what they are capable of doing. I don't have a problem with them getting reasonable chastisement for bad behaviour.
The only time I have ever complained about a punishment was when my 10 year old missed out on a treat as he had lost Golden Time - he had to sit in the library and copy passages from a book instead of watching a movie.......his crime? He was reading his book while waiting on his maths sheet being collected and before the next piece of work was allocated. This is something that his usual teacher allowed (he is a clever boy and generally finishes first - this stops him distracting other children who may still be working) but the stand-in took exception to this. She told him to move himself down a level when he returned to his class. However, his class teacher had adopted an all or nothing approach, so instead of being docked 5 minutes, he missed out on everything. I thought that was really unfair and complained. The head teacher did respond agreeing that it was an inappropriate punishment, but he never got an apology and had by this time already missed the treat.
I don't think I have to adjust an attitude in relation to a school that does not deliver what it promised to deliver. I do not think professionals in education should refer to children as baby goats and frankly I don't think Ox's post was entirely sympathetic.
Standards in state schools from what I have seen are utterly dismal and need to be sorted out without further delay.
And I take it that it isn't offensive to call somebody you have never met a "dick".
I do think there are times when you have to tell your child that the school is wrong because not doing so undermines their sense of justice.
I did not do this strongly enough when dd's school decided to disbelieve in her medical diagnosis (despite being fully supplied with medical letters) and forced her through utterly humilating procedures such as having to crawl into the loo, because they would not open up the disabled toilet, as they did not believe she was really in pain and preferred to think she was lazy, or being left alone in the classroom because the rest of her set went upstairs for their maths lessons. I believed (like so many posters) dd was telling half truths until the teacher actually put on her report that she would have done better in maths if she had been able to access the lessons.
This was wrong and I am daily having to deal with a fallout of a child who has been disbelieved and humiliated and would now rather self harm than go to school if she feels she might have to ask an adult for help, because she still feels that it is naughty of her to be ill and helpless. I was a coward and we are all being punished for it. The one thing I can do to help dd make sense of her life is to say "yes, they were wrong, I should have challenged it earlier, I am very sorry".
Having said that, there is no way I am going to let that inform my attitude to ds's detentions for faffing about in class and not doing his homework. He deserves them, I am jolly glad he is getting them, it is in his best interests as well as in the interests of the other children. He knows he can't use his sister's experiences as a get-out card with me.
And if he cheeks teachers, then I will be happy for him to spend his time in the exclusionm unit. I don't see why anyone should have to put up with rudeness, I don't so I don't see why the teachers should.
I have only complained once about a detention that was given out to my son.
A letter came to tell me he had a detention the next day for "not staying on task",and the date it was given.
I sent an email to the school saying I would fully support him being given a detention for this reason,except....he wasn't at school on the day in question ( He had been off sick for 2 days )!!!
The teacher apologised to me the following day, at parent consultation evening. Apparently there is another boy with the same ,slightly unusual name in the class, and she had accidently selected the wrong one on the computer!! She was suitably embarrassed, and I just laughed it off!
I should add he has never had a detention in his life before, and he was horrified when that letter came!!
Marriedinwhite I teach at a top independent and we too call children 'kids'. Not in front of parents though....
And I agree with you that state education is in a mess in that it is suffering from the damage inflicted by successive governments. You should however remember that state teachers are working very hard in often really difficult circumstances and also that some state schools ate genuinely excellent. Although I concur that an OTSTED 'outstanding' means very little.
The interesting thing though countrykitten was that when dd was at a top state comp although it was a mess and although the teachers were working hard (most of them - they were fab but had the wrong head) it didn't stop the school from constantly asking for donations. It was people like us who could give them but regrettably as they were not listening they lost the opportunity to receive the donations and to keep a child who would have bolstered their results. Rather sad I think.
And sorry - I just can't stand the term "kids". It's common, sloppy and far too casual. Do you wear slacks
Mine is a nightmare, I often have sessions on the phone with DDs teacher commiserating about how naughty she has been that day and we swap horror stories. She regularly tells me she doesn't know how I do it, and that DD is exhausting.
'The boy in the photo looks guilty as hell imo.'
I can't believe you meant that seriously!
If you've invented a gadget that can determine guilt from a photograph, you need to get a patent for it.
How useful that would be for the police?
I did mean it seriously, if I can feel my son attempt to sneak up the stairs from 3 rooms away, deciding guilt from a photo is easy peasy
I should definitely think about contracting my services
To the "kids" comments it really amazes me how some people go out of their way to be offended !!
Marriedinwhite the 'kids' I teach do not have the sort of parents who would ever use the term 'common' in such a way. Are you Hyacinch Bouquet?
Kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids kids
Fuck me, I am childish sometimes
If you teach at a top indy, you might be teaching my dc. You have no idea what the parents might say in private
or not to teachers
I agree with amck700. That photo is really
apt unfortunate and makes the boy look like Central Casting's nasty kid stereotype.
For comparison, look at any article in the guardian that features Gove. Without fail they have a pic which makes him look a right tit. Not difficult, I realise.
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