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To think that many parents believe their kids can do no wrong?

(110 Posts)
superstarheartbreaker Fri 08-Feb-13 21:10:58

Of course it's natural to think that our children are wonderful and amazing but I work in a school, I have done teacher training and I am amazed at how many parents cannot believe that their children are merely human and therefore just as capable of wrong doing as the next child.
So far I have had a mother complaining that I 'pick' on her child. To which I replied that if her offspring wasn't so badly behaved then I wouldn't have to discipline her.
I sent someone out for throwing a major sulk when I asked her to do some work and to get her feet off the table (she wouldn't). Her mother has now insisted that she no longer comes to my tutorial.
I am constantly hearing stories about parents who refuse to acknowledge the wrongdoings of their young.
Surely we do our kids a great disservice by NOT bollicking them when they have done wrong or by not acknowledging that are even capable of wrong doing in the first place?

Plus I also think that as a generation we are all very confused as to how best discipline our included. The consistency thing...I'm no expert.

AgentZigzag Fri 08-Feb-13 22:06:06

I know my 12 YO DD would understand, or at least think about, what was behind a salute associated with the nazis ThreeB.

But you can't say that's the case with this lad, I would say it's quite common for children to say/do things they've seen without knowing fully what they're doing.

I know I have, and DD comes home from school saying other DC have said things it's obvious they don't know what they mean (from using it in the wrong context/not getting the wording quite right etc).

OxInABox Fri 08-Feb-13 22:08:27

Whatever, marriedinwhite - I was trying to agree with you, I made a self-deprecating remark about my own behaviour, and you have used it as an excuse to become tetchy, defensive, and above all to say I deserved to be assaulted.

Fucking hell.

AgentZigzag Fri 08-Feb-13 22:09:45

Yeah, he should be pulled up on cheeking the teacher back echt, definitely.

But I would worry about any DC being branded a racist, and this following them, when what happened is a matter of interpretation or one persons word against another.

He might be a total horror, or the teacher might be at the end of their tether and didn't handle it well, you can't know.

HollyBerryBush Fri 08-Feb-13 22:10:05

We've been side tracked on a media link - any parent worth their salt would have accepted the initial detention and realised their child was at best inappropriate.

By kicking up a kerfuffle they have ultimately condoned their 14yo childs deliberately provocative behaviour, sought to undermine the school and gain publicity. Although why they should want to besplattered all over the press is beyond me.

AgentZigzag Fri 08-Feb-13 22:10:45

And I meant to say that you shouldn't take one persons word over another just because of the job they do, or discount the other persons word because of their young age.

marriedinwhite Fri 08-Feb-13 22:11:02

Sorry InABox perhaps I misinterpreted what you said but it came across as though my dd deserved what she suffered because she had forthright parents.

ThreeBeeOneGee Fri 08-Feb-13 22:15:05

I totally agree with what HollyBerryBush said above. Why take it to the papers?

ThreeBeeOneGee Fri 08-Feb-13 22:17:38

It's just attention-seeking, which is probably where their son learnt it from (if we're giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming he was just being a PITA rather than deliberately comparing the teacher to a Nazi).

OxInABox Fri 08-Feb-13 22:18:37

What? No! Wow! In that case we're mutually offended over the same misinterpretation - you were angry because you think I think your DD deserved it, and I was angry because I thought you thought I deserved it.

No. Best of luck to your DD in private education - it was a world of difference for me and I hope it's doing the same for her.

I do apologise, both for appearing to trivialise your DD's situation and for the post before this one.

marriedinwhite Fri 08-Feb-13 22:22:25

Pax smile

AgentZigzag Fri 08-Feb-13 22:26:25

There's no way I would go along with my DD being punished for being a racist Holly.

No way.

I would genuinely think she wasn't, because what I know of her doesn't add up to anything like being racist in her views, and if I thought that, why should I just shut up and let such an unfair portrait of her be officially sanctioned by her school?

So everyone else would gang up on her and exclude her thinking it was OK because she was racist scum.

Yfronts Fri 08-Feb-13 22:27:05

Working with kids put me off having children for years! Had my own now and they are lovely. Not perfect of course but well behaved still. As long as they are treated fairly by a teacher, I can't see the problem. It's not acceptable to have feet on tables

HollyBerryBush Fri 08-Feb-13 22:37:40

There's no way I would go along with my DD being punished for being a racist Holly.

While the detention was initally postponed, officials later contacted his family to say Ben had to serve his punishment, despite the head teacher, Matthew Munro, admitting that the school was prepared to drop its claims that the incident was racist.

So the school stepped down on the racism almost immediately - so again at best the child was deliberately underminining, a teacher and yet the parents have this need to go to the press? the child was being a disruptive influence. Sometimes parents just need to see their off spring are inappropriate - unless of course this a standard greeting within the Munro household?

Of course there will be poor literacy within the reporting leading to ambiguity in the whole chain of events.

I've always taken the stance that I may not agree with teachers, or school policy, but I dont undermine it in front of my child - I do make waves at times behind closed doors, but it is never discussed with my child/ren. Hence I have a very good relationship with all the schools my children attend.

AgentZigzag Fri 08-Feb-13 22:48:10

I would discuss what I thought and how I felt about the school and teachers with my DD Holly.

It's not that I would take any shit from DD, I'm relatively realistic about her, but ultimately I'm on her side, and she knows that.

I would never go along with her being cheeky to a teacher or misbehaving at school, so it'd be her tough luck if she was pulled up on playing up in a class (if I'm on her side, it's good for her bad behaviour to be picked up on).

But introducing the racist tarring is a step above a normal answering back from a DC, and like bullying, shouldn't be used lightly.

Doesn't it worry you that they dropped the racist claim so quickly? If it was that tentative a link, why bring it up in the first place? It can't be as cut and dry as they make out.

And if someone came down to a conclusion that my DD was racist, rather than thinking it through and punishing her for what definitely happened (being disrespectful towards a teacher), then I'd have something to say, yes.

timidviper Fri 08-Feb-13 22:57:39

I think most things in life swing, like a pendulum, from one extreme to the other and I think, I hope, we must be at the extreme of the world revolving around children / children can do no wrong.

superstarheartbreaker Fri 08-Feb-13 23:01:33

I think children are rather prone to making mistakes and we as adults should guide them. Having said that I just rebelled from any good guidance my poor folks had to offer. sad

conkercon Fri 08-Feb-13 23:37:31

Not sure that many parents think their child can do no wrong but some do. I had the misfortune to be quite good friends with one mum who though none of her children could do no wrong.

There was one incident when the boys were about 9 when she phoned me to tell me that my son had punched her son in the face and he had a split lip and it was for no reason. I was absoloutely mortified, apologised profusely and said I would speak to my DS. He of course had a slightly different story.

At my suggestion we sat the boys down to try and get to the truth (although she was not that keen she agreed to it) and it transpired that yes my son had punched him but her DS was pulling him up from his seat by his hair (it was relatively long at the time but that is another story) after calling him names in the playground etc. Her son admitted what he had done. She kind of insinuated that well my son should get his hair cut.......but we made them shake hands and I hoped that she had learned a lesson in that there are two sides to every story.

A few weeks later her DS punched mine in the stomach. This was witnessed by three other children and an adult. There was no reason for it and he denied doing it despite the witnessess. His mother did not believe the three other children or the adult and totally believed her son.

Needless to say we are ex friends.

dayshiftdoris Sat 09-Feb-13 01:21:54

And then there is me grin

I asked a school to risk assess my son and I wrote to the governors to request that a behaviour management plan was put in place ASAP.

The SENCO laughed at me when I said the risk assessment was necessary... he had already kicked a teacher and was lashing out at children EVERY day at that point...

It was another 5 months of almost daily incidents before a risk assessment was put into place - 3 months after a group of professionals told them to.

Now he's in a school with a decent approach to discipline and his ASD... he was risk assessed before being allowed on school property.

Teacher training does not make you an expert on behaviour management - how much actual teaching hours do you get on that and additional needs during said training? Not much I am lead to believe...
And even if you have good personal classroom management the ethos of the school is vital to the discipline within it.

I would question if you have a) had much support from the school over these allegations from parents and b) critically reflected upon your own practice in order to identify areas that need change

Having a child with challenging behaviours is hard work at home, he's a friggin nightmare for teachers - some can manage him 90% of the time, others 10% of the time - often its approach that makes the difference however at the school I mention above - all of the teachers could only manage him for about 10% of the time because their support was non-existent...
His current school - most of the teachers can manage him 90% of the time and when it became apparently that staff were struggling in certain lessons senior management observed the lesson... some were merely time of day, change in teacher but with a couple of others... well he was moved out their lessons and educated elsewhere in the school. They are not bad teachers but their approach did not stand up to the challenging behaviour my son presents with yet I know that they have other 'tricky' children that they do very well with.

Telling a parent that if their child was better behaved then you wouldnt have to tell them off is not very professional... Much better to have told the parent the level of behaviour that is expected and explained how her DD did not meet that expectation, how it was dealt with in line with school policy and inviting her to discuss the ways in which you both could work together to prevent such a thing re-occuring...

Ofcourse they might just tell you to 'fuck off' but then that is whole different issue which then again needs to be dealt with at different level... kept seperate from the behaviour issues from the child and even if parents dont see the issue with their children's behaviour the school should have & follow robust procedures and exclude if necessary.
You see there is a tendency in schools to do something else - expect a type of behaviour from certain children according to their parents / circumstances... it's utterly infuriating when you are trying to teach a child best behaviour and they witness inequitable approaches...

AgentZigzag Sat 09-Feb-13 01:33:44

That's a difficult position for you to be in dayshift, but I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect all the teachers to be able to deal with every level of disruptive behaviour possible from an under 16 YO.

They're teachers, not trained mediators or martial arts masters, maintaining their authority is a big part of teaching, but I feel for them if they're being used to buffer disruptive behaviour (whatever it's origin) just because of a lack of funds for more appropriate alternatives (for eg).

AgentZigzag Sat 09-Feb-13 01:34:47

And I feel sorry for you being forced to fight for your DS like that, I meant to say smile

piprabbit Sat 09-Feb-13 01:44:21

I seem to remember going to school in an atmosphere where most parents would assume the teacher was right and punishments went unchallenged most of the time.

But I don't think the school usually spoke to the parent and nor did the children. Most discipline happened within school hours, the children complied and then it was all over until next time.

Absoluteeightiesgirl Sat 09-Feb-13 05:47:30

A post typical of someone who extrapolates one across the whole. Pointless.
My experiences of private edicstion are shocking but does that mean the private sector as a whole is to be damned? No.
And as for you comments about Gove..... biscuit

Mosschopz Sat 09-Feb-13 06:47:02

The nazi salute was insensitive and his conduct was disruptive and undermining of the tracher's authority, I'd have given him a detention (teacher)...but racist? I think the school made a lot of work for itself by labelling it such. It's stupid, immature, offensive and insensitive and yes could be seen by some as racist but parents will often hear 'my son/daughter is being accused of being a rscist' which only inflames the situation.

The only kids we have issues with are the ones whose parents 'back' them every time or aren't remotely interested in them.

Mawgatron Sat 09-Feb-13 07:40:11

I suspect married in white doesn't work in a school , otherwise she wouldn't be singing Goves' praises.
And for what it's worth, most independent schools (I went to one) either don't allow difficult students in, or expel them and leave them with no option but to go to state school, so they don't necessarily have the same problems to deal with.
Good for you being able to afford to send your child to a private school. I hate to break it to you, but the incident you describe could have just as easily happened there too.
I work in a state school as an English teacher, and we have a dedicated attendance officer who picks up if a student is missing after attending earlier in the day, and goes to find them, calls home etc.
I try to teach my students to be respectful, don't raise my voice at them (another school policy), and when I bollock them, I do it in a restrained and appropriate way. But I still call it a bollocking! Sometimes students need to be spoken to rationally about their behaviour, and generally they respond really positively. However, when you have a student calling people faggots repeatedly in a really aggressive way, and their parent defends them and actually blames you for making a big deal of it, yes it is infuriating. Some parents need to see the truth about their darling children.

ChestyLeRoux Sat 09-Feb-13 08:01:19

I have found it to be the other way round and the first question parents usually ask is has their child been good/well behaved.

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