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to feel hurt for my fatherless son

(130 Posts)
spiritedaway Mon 04-Feb-13 21:24:04

I have 4 dc- the youngest is 2 the eldest 10. The youn gest 2 have no contact with their father. My Dp wants to move in and be a dad to my little 2. He has shown great commitment over the last year during a fairly long distance relationship. He would like a child of his own. To not have one is a deal breaker. I am currently a single mum of 4. I would love a baby together but i need to weigh against needs of the other kids. I feel like he is saying my little 2 are not enough and would almost be downgraded by his own child. He saying he just doesn't want to always feel like an outsider looking in. I am over 40. I also fear becoming a single mum of 5. I asked him what if i say no, he replied he would leave. If i try, but we can't then he says that would be ok. Is this more like wants me to prove something to him? I really feel it is crunch time.

spiritedaway Tue 05-Feb-13 00:01:51

Sad but cautionary tale Flow. . i would definitely want him to move in and try first-but because of timing i feel i should do it soon. And he feels here is home and says i am putting him in limbo

spiritedaway Tue 05-Feb-13 00:06:08

i meant move in and try the situation btw. . not ttc first

flow4 Tue 05-Feb-13 00:06:16

I understand the time pressure... Can you have him move in soon then, and say you need to find out how you will all 'gel' as a family before you agree to try for another baby, and that you will make a decision about conceiving in, say, 6-12 months?

spiritedaway Tue 05-Feb-13 00:06:50

And aren't all first time parents "untested"

spiritedaway Tue 05-Feb-13 00:08:32

that's the suck it and see way ahead Flow. I think that may be the only way

flow4 Tue 05-Feb-13 00:17:32

Yes. But...

- Generally new parents get to learn together. However, there is a massive difference between your experience and his, which is going to cause some issues anyway - and you need to check these issues are resolvable before you plan another baby, IMO...

- Babies are pretty easy, generally (apart from the sleep deprivation bit! confused ) so new parents usually get a relatively easy 'introduction' to parenthood. Four children aged 2-10 are not easy, not by any stretch of the imagination... He is going to have a shock when he moves in, and you need to know he can handle it - for your kids' sake as well as your own.

- If a new dad 'fails to test', and leaves when a baby is just a few months old, that baby will not be hurt - it is too young to know. But your older children will be...

flow4 Tue 05-Feb-13 00:18:37

Oops, that was answering your 'tested' point, not your 'suck it and see' point - sorry!

flow4 Tue 05-Feb-13 00:22:26

I think the bottom line is, you've got to see if he can handle being dad to the kids you've already got before you decide to have another one with him...

Your age is an added pressure, but it doesn't change this truth.

spiritedaway Tue 05-Feb-13 00:23:33

he probably doesn't even realise that if we lived together full time we would rarely, if ever, have sex again anyway! Let him suck that and see. . ;) sleep time for me. Thanks so much all.

DioneTheDiabolist Tue 05-Feb-13 00:30:24

Spirited, your post really struck a cord with me. I am a SM, my DS's dad is very absent and I too have been in a Rahul with a younger (childless) man for nearly a year.

You need to think really carefully before you move this man in. He has told you that he wants a biological DC. You don't seem so sure and the truth is you wouldn't even be considering it had he not said what he said.

What if you can't have another DC? What will be the effect on your rship with him? What will be the impact on your DCs if you have another DC/if this rship doesn't work out/if it does? Do you really want another baby?

Your BF has made it clear that any future you share is dependent on you having a child together. This is not something you can guarantee, even if you do find it desirable.

I know that you love him. You also love your DCs. Perhaps a better idea at this time would be for him to move closer to you (not in with you).

Hissy Tue 05-Feb-13 07:36:23

If your previous relationship was abusive, your radar will be off unless you've worked flipping hard on yourself.

I'd guess that you haven't. You're coming over as desperate to find a father for your dc, rather than protecting them, and being the one true parent they can rely on.

A family friend for 20 years means nothing, you don't know this man. I bet everyone that knows your ex would say he's a nice bloke.

It takes on average 2 Years for some abusers to show their colours, or something like having a child.

He said he'd leave if you don't agree to trying for a child. I don't like this, it's manipulative. Normal men with brains would discuss, and understand that a 40 yo mother of 4, may not want to have any more. He's thinking of himself only here.

Hissy Tue 05-Feb-13 07:40:04

I'm not saying he is abusive, I can't know that for sure.

What I AM saying is that on the situation you describe here, categoricalky, neither can you.

You appear vulnerable and that places you and your dc at risk.

Slow down.

sparkle12mar08 Tue 05-Feb-13 07:59:03

When a man tells you who and what he is, LISTEN to him. He's told you that he want a child of his own and nothing, nothing you've said here suggests that you actually want another child yourself. I'm not necessarily ascribing manipulative intentions to his stating it, but he has been very honest with you and I'd suggest he's telling the truth. You need to finish with him for your own worth and that of your children, becuase what is also clear is that he will never accept your four as his 'own'.

spiritedaway Tue 05-Feb-13 09:42:21

I am not desperate to give my kids a dad. . if i was i would not have gone through years of harassment and alienation by my own family while their own dad made everyone's lives a misery. . but yeah, i haven't given up hope of ever having a partner. This current guy proposed- i declined. I don't feel desperate. Rather i don't want to pass up a chance of happiness. Women in relationships often give the man the same ultimatum. He says he never wanted kids until he saw me with mine. He does constantly reference my ex, who is loaded, professionally successful etc and accuse me of seeing him as second best and nothing but a substitute for me"the ex"

spiritedaway Tue 05-Feb-13 09:43:22

Sorry. . Phone is rubbish even when i preview post

Hissy Tue 05-Feb-13 09:47:31

Sorry, but that post confirms it.

You are in no place to be doing this, the guy is rushing you, and you are falling for another one.

Get out now.

spiritedaway Tue 05-Feb-13 09:50:48

You mean because he compares himself to my ex? Feeling inadequate etc?

Kiwiinkits Tue 05-Feb-13 09:58:44

I dunno Hissy, are you sure you're not projecting some of your experiences on to the OP? It just sounds like he's being honest about what he wants out of life - wanting one's own biological kids is fair enough for a 30 year old, I reckon.

Hissy Tue 05-Feb-13 11:11:17

You suffered at the hands of an abuser for the same reason every other victim does, cos you get trapped. You fall for it.

You got out, cos it was the right thing to do. Staying in it would have been wrong.

putting your kids in a vulnerable position, looking for a father for them is just asking for trouble. All of your posts are about HIM, and the need for your DC to have a dad, FFS, you've even talked about him adopting them.

You say your instincts are off, you say your Ex is forbidden from seeking contact. You have history for attracting a damaged man, he's damaged you AND your DC, and here you are talking about another man, who you have NO day to day live in, Long term relationship experience with potentially adopting them.

What have you done to prevent yourself from falling prey again? Have you done therapy, the freedom programme, attended group, read books to help you heal?

If you've not done much or any of this, you'll be still as vulnerable as you were the day your abuser left.

This stuff doesn't heal by itself. Ever.

Justforlaughs Tue 05-Feb-13 11:33:26

Maybe I'm not so sceptical as some of the posters on here, but my own story is different. I had a young son who had no contact with his biological father. I met someone else (who had no experience of children) and we got engaged after a year, married after another year. We didn't live together until we were married. He adopted my son and we went on to have more children. We've been married for 17 years and my oldest son thinks of him as his Dad. It can work, especially if you talk through what you both want and expect beforehand, it sounds to me like he is being honest about his expectations. It's up to you whether you feel you can meet those expectations or not. No-one else can make that decision for you. If you have reservations be honest about them. Good luck

spiritedaway Tue 05-Feb-13 11:34:57

I am not co dependant if that's what you mean. .and i don't feel i have a history of attracting abusive men. I feel i have a history of being incredibly strong and getting out of the one abusive relationship i was in. And getting out when i was pregnant and when he mounted a campaign of abuse against me, ignoring court orders and throwing his money about through the courts.I am proud i got out and do not see myself as a victim or as vulnerable.

spiritedaway Tue 05-Feb-13 11:36:20

Happy for you both, Justfor. Thanks.

Hissy Tue 05-Feb-13 14:04:05

Not projection. Fact.

I'm involved in a charity for DV victims. If the issues that lead someone to an abusive relationship are not addressed, they just sit there, waiting.

I know of women coming to groups 25 YEARS after the end of a DV relationship that need help resolving the issues they had.

Abusers target the vulnerable. We're made vulnerable by wanting to please people, having a poor view of ourselves, often bestowed on us by our parents, and no confidence to enforce our boundaries.

Once you've been targetted once, you will be again, until you lose the vulnerability.

If OP was talking about the new bloke and his deseire to have kids, but his uinderstanding that she might not want any more, it'd be one thing, but he's made a threat to leave unless she tries! All of this in a only year of sporadic relationship, during which he's proposed (!) 10 years of family friend really means nothing.

A normal, rational man, dating a 40+ yo woman would have to know the risk of a genuine and understandable possibility that she might not want more. He'd be ok with that, or would have never embarked on the relationship at all.

He's placing his own needs above hers, or he'll leave her.

And she's sleepwalking into it.

He's 30, OP is not. If he wants a ready-made family, all well and good, but I see unbalance here and it's unhealthy. It's setting OP to be ridiculed for lacking in fertility, no matter what he says now, and her feeling 'spent'. seeing how she already thinks her DC are in need of pity as they are fatherless, and therefore she is not enough, it suggests a poor self-image.

He should be accepting you as you are spirited, as a package, for now. Anything else in the future is a bonus, not something to scare you with. You have to see this, surely?

If he wants his own family, then dating someone over 10yrs his senior is not ideal. It's not a pop, it's biology.

I don't think this man is right for you, and I think he'd not be right for your DC.

Time will tell, but radical changes need take place before then, and lots of work on your part sprited, lots of thinking and lots of watching how he is.

I know you want the happy ending. You really do deserve one, but the foundations for that have to come from a strong you, one that knows you ARE good enough, and that your DC ARE happy, safe and that all they need is a decent parent, not pair of parents.

I don't see any of that.

I promise you, end this, work on yourself, heal the pain of the ex, shrug off the hurt and vulnerability and you WILL find a man that loves you JUST the way you are, that pitches in, that accepts and loves the DC equally, and doesn't ask for you to prove a thing to him.

I'm not here to attack or upset, I'm here to point out that you are better than this. This man is a transition, the better one is around the corner, don't settle!

spiritedaway Tue 05-Feb-13 15:48:18

Hissy, thanks for taking the time to write all this. I will take some time to consider what you have said.

flow4 Tue 05-Feb-13 16:32:39

FWIW, you're not coming across to me as co-dependent or 'damaged', spirited. You're coming across as considered and thoughtful - someone who has found herself in a tricky real-life situation, and who is weighing things up carefully.

Hissy's post is useful though: what she's describing is true for many women, and considering what/whether any of it is true for you is the equivalent of picking up a rock and looking at whatever's hiding underneath - which is a wise thing to do, under the circumstances.

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