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to think asylum seekers should not have to film themselves having sex to prove they are gay?

(42 Posts)
kim147 Sun 03-Feb-13 18:40:47

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OxfordBags Sun 03-Feb-13 20:34:25

Booyhoo, that is a very interesting point. I imagine it must happen, but have not read any reports about such cases. I imagine, sadly, that the attitude would be along the lines of "Well, if you're NOT gay, what have you got to worry about?!" and get them sent back sad

LineRunner Sun 03-Feb-13 20:35:03

Yes, Booy, that makes sense.

Lots of people flee from countries like Iran because they have been warned to, or told they'll be next, often after a relative has been murdered.

Intimidation can be a powerful thing.

nkf Sun 03-Feb-13 20:37:12

Dramatic thread title. Totally inaccurate story. They aren't being "made" to do any such thing. Very irritating.

nkf Sun 03-Feb-13 20:40:31

Sorry. They don't "have to." Different wording. Just as irritating though.

LineRunner Sun 03-Feb-13 20:42:24

Proof is a tough one. I've helped to support two young people's asylum cases over the past few years. In both cases they witnessed the murders of their own fathers. They gave valid accounts of the violence, their flights, and their fears. They just couldn't prove it, though. Nobody could.

The other problem with the UKBA is that take so long to make a decision, or wait until the young person has turned 18 to issue their decision to deport; by which time the young person has been through school, made friends, got lodgings, got a life started.

Thistledew Sun 03-Feb-13 20:43:11

The trouble is that UKBA operate a policy of 'reasons to doubt'. Each claim they have, they look for reasons to disbelieve and reject the claim, and if they find any, they will use them to refuse the case.

For example, one gay man from Uganda that I know of had his claim for protection refused, despite the fact that he had a newspaper report of his house being burnt down, having a witness who he had sex with, having scars from where he was attacked, a relative in the UK who knows he is gay, and a Ugandan lawyer who got him bail after he was arrested for being gay. According to UKBA, it is easy to have newspaper reports planted, his witness was not telling the truth because they have different names for the bar in which they met, the scars could have been caused by an attack for another reason, the relative is not impartial, and taking all that into consideration the Ugandan lawyer must be in on the lie also.

BridgetBidet Sun 03-Feb-13 21:01:32

I still think that even somebody in that situation would be able to give a fairly coherent account of their feelings, coming to the decision, why they came to that decision, how they knew they were gay etc, etc which someone faking it wouldn't be able to do convincingly.

In addition these cases aren't decided in a day. If they've come to this country because they don't wish to live a lie by the time their case comes to be heard they should also have built up quite a bit of evidence backing this up and will be able to give a convincing account of how they have lived in the UK which will back this up.

What this article seems to be saying is that in cases where they claim is based on LGBT issues there should be no investigation of that central issue.

If that were to happen basically it would end up hugely abused which would do a massive disservice to exactly the people that this system is designed to help. It would completely discredit the entire system if that was to happen.

Can anybody suggest exactly how these claims would be verified as true if that central issue couldn't be investigated?

hazleweatherfieldgirldetective Sun 03-Feb-13 21:19:20

No one wishes more than I that they wouldn't film themselves. I'm an immigration and asylum lawyer, so have to watch the videos before I can submit them as evidence. It feels horrible to have to converse with the asylum seeker having witnessed their most intimate moments.

Why do the UKBA ask? Well, its become quite common for "economic migrants" to claim homosexuality to avoid deportation. It's not that video evidence is specifically asked for, but there's very little else that can be submitted that would prove to an adequate level that they ARE gay, so that's what they bring in.

It's the transient relationships that a lot of the LGBT asylum seekers hold down that make it hard to prove. Those in long term relationships will have proof of cohabitation, photographs of them doing "couple stuff" etc, so they wouldn't need to use sex tapes to prove anything.

hazleweatherfieldgirldetective Sun 03-Feb-13 21:21:04

Bridget, the system is very quick. The home office provide an initial decision within 30 days. It then takes roughly anotheronth to go to court.

LineRunner Sun 03-Feb-13 21:25:07

My 'job' with the asylum cases was to make sure that a lawyer like hazelweather had all the right bits of documentation - I was essentially a volunteer gofer running from agency to agency, checking that they all had the paperwork completed and the files compiled and with the lawyer.

The young man must have given his account and been assessed by about twenty different professionals.

And still the UKBA said, 'Prove it.'

LineRunner Sun 03-Feb-13 21:32:06

hazle But some cases are taking years. Some asylum applicants are stuck in limbo.

hazleweatherfieldgirldetective Sun 03-Feb-13 21:35:37

Not initial claims. The Home Office allow people who have been refused to remain without enforcing removal, which is when they go on to establish a private and family life. Then they suddenly begin removal procedures when a failed asylum seeker has a partner/kids/friends in the UK.

It's a ridiculous system, and its thoroughly broken.

LineRunner Sun 03-Feb-13 21:43:36

How do you survive your job, hazel? I only vaguely helped with two cases and felt so angry and depressed for ages. The two young people faced a culture of disbelief.

You are right about 'thoroughly broken.'

hazleweatherfieldgirldetective Sun 03-Feb-13 21:50:16

I get some amazing, wonderful results sometimes, which makes the job a lot more pleasant.

ripsishere Sun 03-Feb-13 21:51:39

But a better system than Malasysia who don't recognize the UN treaty.
I currently do some volunteer work with Myanmar refugees. Essentailly, all they have is an ID card confirming they are stateless people and get no help whatsoever except from UNHCR with being pointed in the right direction of voluntary groups.
'My' students are a delightful lot who live in what is laughably called low cost housing, 22-30 odd in one flat. Work on building sites for ludicrously low money with no guarantee of a job each day.
Since they have no rights to education or health care, there is a huge number of sick people. And no end in sight for them.
It is heartbreaking.

EuroShagmore Sun 03-Feb-13 22:10:30

Straight people do have to prove their relationships if their immigration status is dependant upon it. It's a standard part of the process. Not quite the same as having to prove sexuality to in the same ball park.

EuroShagmore Sun 03-Feb-13 22:10:54

but not to

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