.,,to think that the increasing White Flight from our Cities is a very worrying development?

[theplodder]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/9831912/I-feel-like-a-stranger-where-I-live.html

And that we are getting further away from being an integrated multicultural society year by year as separate communities live in their own way with nothing in common?

[TheFallenNinja]

It's an interesting article, the most interesting thing is how the groups are described by religion on one hand and by nationality on the other.

A fairly dull read which cites examples that involve a handful if people an then tries to overlay it as some national crisis.

Written to be inflammatory at worst and viewing the past through rise tinted at best.

[adeucalione]

Is it a race or an economic issue?

I don't know London at all but could it be that white British have accrued more wealth and are therefore better placed to move from the run down, traditional working-class areas?

Either way, I agree that segregation, even self segregation, is not good for society but am not sure what can be done about it.

[fromparistoberlin]

and her point is? that the sky is blue?

its exactly the same in my DS school, I dont think there is one single "white English" child in his class

but you know what, its Ofsted outstanding. Yet white Middle class people like her run a mile and they dont want little Archie educated with Mohammed, Kyle and Tanisha

frankly the MOST angering issue for me is hearing eastern europeans (white) say they they dont want to send theie kids to my DS school as there are too many black faces! that fucking enraged me.....

but that writer fucking HATES muslims thats for sure

AND she has not nothered to mention that in fact more and more MC are moving to Acton, and the road near the station is becoming increasingly gentrified. funny that

racist twat she is

[BarryShitpeas]

Jane Kelly, for example, is a twat.

There is plenty of community in Acton.

The only bit of truth in the article is that some Eastern Europeans are racist.

Well no shit, so are some Brits (Jane Kelly).

[adeucalione]

And it is the strident cry of 'racist twat' that prevents people from expressing their concerns and opinions.

The writer may well be racist, I don't know, but her opinion piece is in response to the statistics released by the ONS, so presumably accurate and not made up.

Sundown segregation is a potential problem for everyone who lives in those communities, and is certainly worth debating.

[musicismylife]

When I first read this piece, I thought, 'here we go...'. But then I went to read the news article and started of having a teeny bit of sympathy for her. The problem, I have is that it's almost like she is actively seeking reasons not to be stay there, or perhaps I am wrong.

People, no matter what colour/creed/religion, are becoming increasingly rude. Only the other day I was in a very popular supermarket and the lady at the till was busy having a conversation with another member of staff while serving me. She was, what I would assume, White British. But I never put her behaviour down to her race.

I feel that the writer of the article is too quick to put all negativities on someone's race. Yet, if someone her own race did the same thing, it would not register with her. If you are white and rude, you are seen as just being rude. If you are black and rude, you are black and rude. So in turn, it gives a very unfair balance on certain groups of people.

She calls it White Flight, some would say White Spite....

[Orwellian]

What I want to know is how do all the immigrants she is talking about afford to live in London when so many of them are apparently extremely poor and you need something like a £50k salary to live here? Acton is not the nicest place to live but last time I checked 2 bed flats were going for over a quarter of a million.

[gordyslovesheep]

Not seeing the issue ...sorry

[theplodder]

Cries of "racist" drown out any debate.

The people that are shouting "racist" are allowing this situation to fester and become worse and worse - it emboldens those who want to live separately.

Instead, some suggestions about how to tackle segregation and the cultural alienation that is now being felt by many, many people would be helpful , and frankly talking about disgusting imported practices such as FGM, first cousin-marrying and attendant health problems, and exploitation of new arrivals into the communities would be a start.

[bigmouthstrikesagain]

I moved to London to find work (and experience the Capital city life) I was not a Londoner, I lived there for a decade, had a kid got married and moved to the country (at a commutable distance) when kid 2 was on her way. We could not afford a bigger place (we had a 1 bed flat) in London, dh wanted to be closer to his aging parents.

It is an economic issue, people move in and out of the city as their circumstances change. I miss the ethnic mix in London, the attitude of the article is very small minded. She moans about not getting on with or recognising her community but appears not to want to engage with people on anything but her own terms. Cities do tend to be anonymous but I discovered a community spirit when I had children. I was in Lewisham a very interesting mix of people live there, unlike the village I am in now.

[adeucalione]

I don't like the term 'white flight' either music, it suggests that those leaving are unhappy with the changing racial mix of their communities when there could certainly be other reasons at work (surprisingly few serious studies about this, as far as I can see).

But, considering that London no longer has a White British majority, it is too easy to condemn those that are uneasy with the pace of change as being racist - human nature to feel most comfortable with that that is familiar, I would have thought. I think that politics has failed to accept or address this too.

[musicismylife]

So, theplodder, are you suggesting that all 60,000 'white' people moved out of London because of 'mass immigration'? Are there no other reasons why someone who is white would want to move out of a city?

Could it not be that 60,000 of the indigenous population moved out so there is no issue to be had. Or are we wanting to make this into a racial issue?

Could you be a bit clearer, please?

It's all very peculiar.

[adeucalione]

I suppose the fact that the white population fell by 17% over the last census period is being mooted as relevant because it is 3 x the fall in previous census periods, suggesting that it is perhaps not the normal numbers of people moving out to escape the city, and that there is another factor at play.

[SolidSnake]

"Nowadays, though, most of the tills in my local shops are manned by young Muslim men who mutter into their mobiles as they are serving. They have no interest in talking to me and rarely meet my gaze."

Pretty sure this is a youth problem in general of all races to be honest, not just young Muslim men...

[Tittybangbang]

90% of the children at my dc's school are non white.

All the butchers on the high street are halal. All the grocery shops (apart from Tesco and Costco) are ethnic shops.

Am I suppose to worry about this?

"how to tackle segregation and the cultural alienation that is now being felt by many, many people"

None of my white friends are bothered by it, and we all live in areas where we are an ethnic minority.

I think the OP has an axe to grind.


"and frankly talking about disgusting imported practices such as FGM, first cousin-marrying"

We don't need to lump those two in together do we? First cousin marriages are usually consensual, and don't always pose a problem - particularly if both individuals can access genetic counselling prior to pregnancy.

FGM is a problem and I hope the government does all it does to tackle it. I'd also like to see all other types of non-consensual body modification (including male circumcision) banned for children.

[musicismylife]

But this is the thing, adeucalione, it is not about condemning people with these views, but when she is saying something along the lines of some muslim being rude when she was in the shop, it made me laugh as nowadays, a lot of people, from all backgrounds, are rude.

Like you said, human nautre feels most comfortable with what is familiar, well, that probably goes for immigrants too. Yet, immigrants are told to mix with people, it would appear, do not wish to be 'mixed' with.

[adeucalione]

The think tank Demos is leading a study into this phenomenon here.

It seems that leading geographers did not expect London to become a minority majority city for another 20-30 years, because they had underestimated the numbers of White British who would leave.

Foolish to pretend this is a non-issue imo.

[musicismylife]

But what issue is to be had when we do not know why 60,000 of the populace left?

[SolidSnake]

"One food store has recently installed a sign banning alcohol on the premises."

Um, if they own the store, they can ban whatever they like in it? Pretty sure it doesn't go against anyone's human rights...

[SolidSnake]

oh right never mind my post, didn't read the "Fair enough" after it

[gazzalw]

I am not sure what I think....it is true that there is white flight but I'm pretty sure it's not engendered by racism but by wanting a better standard of living than people (unless they are very comfortably off) can generally afford in places like London.

DW was actually saying the other day that she is the only one of what was once a very wide group of friends (including ex DPs) still left in London...The exodus generally happened as they got married and/or wanted to buy their own homes.

We can't imagine living anywhere else, but I am pretty sure we would have a much better standard of living elsewhere (although not everywhere) in the UK.

It is quite apparent though, that our DCs were in the minority as white British in their primary school and this is in the leafy 'burbs.' Nothing wrong with that but I am not entirely comfortable that they are effectively a minority group.

[adeucalione]

I agree that some of her grievances are not race related - I get surly service in shops all the time, regardless of the race of the sales assistant.

And yes music, of course, that is exactly why segregation occurs - some areas of London experiencing 'white flight' while neighbouring boroughs see increased numbers. I don't believe that that is in anyone's best interests, and we need only look to the US to see where it can lead. I don't know what the answer is, but when someone admits to being a 'white flight' statistic it makes sense to listen to where they are coming from, because understanding it - even if you think they're all mad - is the beginning of addressing it I would have thought.

[musicismylife]

• 60,000

[adeucalione]

it's 600,000