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in thinking this is fraud and not right?

(72 Posts)
sweetkitty Mon 28-Jan-13 15:00:14

Yesterday I was talking to some family members first about the cost of nursery care and X (let's call her) was moaning how last week she had to pay £137 to the nursery. I was agreeing saying it is costly I know people who pay £1000 a month. She is lucky in that her MIL does half her childcare as well and she sends her DS to nursery when she's not at work to get a break.

Anyway Y (her partner) then says that he's lost his job, I'm commiserating with them, hope you find something soon etc he then says he has to go and sign on today. I said "how can you, you live with X she's working FT" turns out he has never legally moved out his mothers house! He moved into a flat with X 9 years ago and they bought another house 7 years ago (I thought together) but its all in her name. He's had periods of unemployment in that time and has claimed everytime saying he still lives at home.

I said you can't do that that's fraud but then they said but he's paid his taxes he's entitled. Turns out he claimed for ONE week in between jobs not that long ago, he finished one job knew he was starting another and still claimed.

Y said she would lovd him to be a SAHD but they can't afford it, he likes to go to the pub, buy clothes etc and she can't afford to give him money for that. I don't get the destitute thing as they then said they bought a new sofa and stuff for the house with his redundancy (bear in mind he claimed for that one week).

It just strikes me that they feel so entitled and are actually greedy. They aren't skint they have the usual Sky, iPhones, new car etc

sweetkitty Sat 02-Feb-13 14:59:53

Yes that's true but if he gets a MW job he will get WTCs won't he ashes done in the past as they are at different addresses.

What got me was the statement that they are forced to do this as they cannot afford to live otherwise. Loads of other people have less to live on and manage just fine without a new car, going out, sky telly etc they cut their cloth and don't rely on a dodgy way around it. And all the comments that unlike us they cannot afford to have one parent stay at home. Well we cut our cloth as well.

But it makes financial sense for them to keep doing it.

charlearose Fri 01-Feb-13 21:42:34

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sweetkitty Fri 01-Feb-13 21:05:02

That's true actually never thought of that as he did have a well paid (if temp) job.

Anyway in my family there's a rule if well everyone's doing it so why can't we hmm they just don't get it.

charlearose Fri 01-Feb-13 20:05:16

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sweetkitty Fri 01-Feb-13 15:35:20

Charlearose - she doesn't get any other benefits as she was moaning that she doesn't get any help with childcare costs as she earns too much, I suspect she might get CTCs but don't know what they've chopped the threshold to. She's got more help than most though as her MIL and friend help with childcare to keep the costs down for her, some people don't have this option at all (speaks of bitter experience).

charlearose Fri 01-Feb-13 12:19:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Monty27 Thu 31-Jan-13 23:39:02

House I can assure you that I'm not fraudulent. I work hard, single parent with two teens and can't balance my books. No benefits of any sort and mediocre salary.

How very dare you make such a sweeping accusation.

Some people are fair and unjudemental about other people's own affairs, unlike you.


JakeBullet Thu 31-Jan-13 11:54:10

I agree with you is a bit much.

You posted and people said "he can actually claim regardless". That should be thr end of it and nobody should be name calling.

sweetkitty Thu 31-Jan-13 11:12:21

Right if two people tell you they are committing benefit fraud as they cannot afford to live if they don't you believe them don't you?

Luckily I've never needed to claim JSA so didn't know that you could claim it even if your partner is working, I stand corrected on that one.

I wrote about it on here as I would not discuss it in RL, I asked a question is this fraud got to,d no it's not and it's none of your business.

Opinion on whethere to report them differs, personally I would feel awful reporting close family, just my opinion, but in this instance they probably aren't committing benefit fraud although why you would tell anyone you are is beyond me. They are probably not paying correct council tax but again none of my business.

I think being called disgusting is a bit much.

JakeBullet Thu 31-Jan-13 09:19:22

dobby, the OP has said nothing which makes me think he is a cheat. She suggested that he couldn't get JSA if he was to declare living with a partner....which is not the case as he will still get JSA.
When I was married and working full time my husband got JSA....all my income was declared etc...and he still got it.

JakeBullet Thu 31-Jan-13 09:17:07

Echoing others who say he can still get JSA even if she is working. My DH got it when he was made redundant a few years back....thankfully not for long as a mortgage needed paying too.
I do t think they are doing anything fraudulent if she is working full time etc and they are not claiming anything else. Likelihood is that her money funds their other stuff.....don't get why you mentioned that tbhconfused......they have obviously paid their way previously and been lucky enough to have work.

I have an iPhone, a iPad, and a TV package.....all on benefits currently but everything was bought or started while I was in work.....could do without paying the extra for the TV package but the fee if I break the contract is eye watering.

houseelfdobby Thu 31-Jan-13 09:05:39

I can only imagine that those people telling the OP to mind her own business are themselves cheats. Why would reporting well founded suspicions mess up anyone's life if they are not on the fiddle? Even if people ARE on the fiddle, the worst that seems to happen is a rap on the knuckles and they are not able to continue doing it into the future.

We live in a society that can only function with mutual co-operation and a certain level of honesty. If you turn a blind eye to cheats then we don't stand a chance of building a better world. Let's help those who are in genuine need by ensuring that money is not wasted on cheats.

Monty27 Thu 31-Jan-13 01:29:09

I've only just skimmed through this. So, OP you wouldn't report close family?

Correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm right, it makes you a hypocrite, and a meddling, malicious, nosy one at that.

<Dons hat because surely I must have misunderstood>

Mosman Thu 31-Jan-13 01:16:13

It's so true and people forget their own little misdemeaners very quickly, we had one relative bitching about the woman over the road from her who got repossessed and "should have paid her bills then". Didn't occur to her that if my aunt hadn't paid her mortgage for 6 months she'd be in the same boat.

vivizone Thu 31-Jan-13 01:02:41

I work full time. One thing that Mumsnet has taught me, is keep your financial business to yourself. There are so many snitches waiting to pounce. I can never understand people who share their money business with others, even family. There are many desperate bitter people that will drop you in for no reason other than jealousy.

People please keep YOUR financial business to yourself. Even if you're doing the right thing, there will be one who wants to make that call to fuck up your life. Do not not tell anyone what incomes goes in and out of your home. People love to watch with their beady little eyes. The op doesn't even have the facts and she has run to a public forum to 'shop' her family in. Disgusting.

andubelievedthat Wed 30-Jan-13 23:25:33

tax is a contribution to the needy? is it? like all those bombs that get manuf. ,to blow to pieces innocent civilians in other countries ,paid for by YOUR tax? deffo needy! needy your blinkin" brain examined! and as regards where you live, you do not have to be living there full time ,example, homeless people claiming jsa are encouraged to supply a mail drop address, it uncomplicates their claim a little , and they don"t have to sign on every day, each govt.body has their own (legal?)def. of what constitutes a home address.

sweetkitty Tue 29-Jan-13 22:28:37

I agree you don't just pay tax to fund junkies and dole cheats you pay it to have your bins emptied, the roads swept, your children educated, healthcare, roads maintained and everything else.

houseelfdobby Tue 29-Jan-13 21:12:25

I have always found curious the viewpoint of "I've paid in all these years, now I want to claim back". Tax is not like that. Lots of us will pay in a lot of tax and NEVER get it back because there are others who will be in need all their lives (eg the disabled, the sick) and never be able to pay in what they took out. Tax is a contrubition to the needy (and police and schools and NHS) and not a personal savings account where you build up a pot of money that you get back one day. But lots of people seem to make that argument confused

sweetkitty Tue 29-Jan-13 14:38:59

I won't report close family.

I also know that X was claiming working tax credits I think, is that the one you get if you make minimum wage and the government top it up? As he said he was living with his Mum as if he did he was living with Y he wouldn't get it.

The one that got me was when he was between jobs, he left one on a Friday knew he was starting the following Monday but still went and signed on to get a weeks money despite having redundancy. I suppose it's worth £70 or whatever it is.

It's all this "well we have to be deceitful as we can't afford to live on one wage and. We don't even get working family tax credits" that's because you earn too much and loads of people live on less and don't fiddle the system.

Don't they'll get caught he's always said he has stayed at the one address despite not living there for 9 years. His justification is that they give money to junkies and he's paid loads of tax so wants some of it back!

LovesGSD Tue 29-Jan-13 14:22:14

What age are they? is the mother a older mum, this might well affect her too (council tax etc)

perceptionreality Tue 29-Jan-13 13:57:06

Don't report them - that's a horrid thing to do. I can tell you from experience that the Job Center are very strict about checking claims and making sure everything is above board.

sarahtigh Tue 29-Jan-13 13:51:04

you can claim contributions based JSA for 6 months if you have 2 years of NI paid you can claim this provided you are seeking work even if your partner is multi-millionaire and you have thousands in bank, after 6 months it is income based JSA and household income and savings matters.

if you have 2 years NI you can normally just look for work in your field at similar salary to what you were on before losing job, this is generally for 26 weeks after that you should be willing to take any job at any salary for which you are qualified to continue on JSA

nickelbabe Tue 29-Jan-13 13:42:47

chrome - the difference is that you provide your current address for all your everyday purposes.

your Passport doesn't need a change of address.
your driving licence only needs an official address in case they need to contact you.

houseelfdobby Tue 29-Jan-13 07:21:24

I don't understand how people can say that whether or not people are cheating on benefits is not their business. If your next door neighbour was stealing from the local bank, would you take the same view? confused. Anyone fiddling benefits is stealing from the whole community - those paying tax, others on benefits legitimately, the NHS, schools....

Report. If they are above board then absolutely no harm will come of it. If they are cheating, then they will be made to stop. Once you have reported then you will be able to remain genuinely good friends with X as you will not need to worry about this issue, knowing that from now on it will be fine.

BTW I think someone upthread is right - JSA can be contributions based but other benefits are mainly means tested.

chrome100 Tue 29-Jan-13 07:17:31

Well technically I have never legally moved out of my parents. All my official docs are at their address. This is because I move a lot and it would be a hassle for me to keep changing it. I pay rent, bills and income tax. I am not a fraud.

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