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To not allow my baby son to stay overnight at his father's new 'love nest'?

(520 Posts)
dollyindub Mon 28-Jan-13 13:58:52

I'll try to keep this brief.

We'd been together for 2 years when I fell pregnant. It was unplanned although we had discussed having a baby and were not using contraception.

He finished our relationship when I told him I was pregnant, continued to live with me for the next 6 months (disclaimer: I was heartbroken, hormonal and really thought it was the shock and that he'd get over it once the baby arrived so stupidly allowed this instead of kicking his arse out).

However he moved back to his mum's at the end of the college term (he's a 'mature' student), but attended the birth of our child.

When our baby was 5 weeks old, I found out that he was in a relationship with a fellow college student (she's married with a child)
I was so angry as I'd had previous concerns re their friendship and her inappropriateness and his apparent lack of boundaries.

I'm posting this here, as they have now moved in together - she moved straight out from her place with her husband, straight into a house they are now renting together, and they are both on easy street whilst I struggle as a lone parent.

Our DS is only 4 months old.

I'm trying really hard to maintain dignity (mostly failing!) but my ex is now wanting to see our baby at his place and take him overnight!

The thought of that woman and him playing happy families with my DS makes me feel ill TBH, so I have said he can see him when he likes (when mutually convenient) but only at my place.
Obviously he is unhappy about this.

I am trying to constantly remember that it's my son's relationship with his dad, and not my issues with him that is important, but it's just so damn hard at the moment!

I need some clarity please! Please mums net jury, AIBU?

wordfactory Thu 31-Jan-13 18:50:49

I don't think VTs posts have been unkind - forhright perhaps. Mine have certainly not been unkind. They contradict the assumption that the OP is right to deny overnight or indeed unspuervised contact. That is all.

kickassmomma Thu 31-Jan-13 16:44:11

I dot understand how I make it sound like she's my possession I would gladly like to see where other MN members have posted about 'our dc' and not 'my dc' most members use the term 'my'

FanFuckingTastic Thu 31-Jan-13 14:45:27

I don't think VinegarTits has been particularly mean, she has posted in an acceptable way.

I think people are projecting their own emotional experience/issues into this thread, and since there are polar opposites OP is going to be told different things, and disagreements will ensue. AIBU is probably not the best way to make a choice when you feel sensitive. Relationships might be better?

I hope OP is able to take all answers in the way they are meant, in her best interest mostly, and ensure that she also sees the bias on both sides and makes an informed decision.

VinegarTits Thu 31-Jan-13 14:42:25

attached should say attacked!

VinegarTits Thu 31-Jan-13 14:39:27

and if you read carefully, most of my posts have been me defending my opinions (which still stand) not me forcing them on the OP, she doesnt have to take my advice, and i dont have to change my advice because you dont agree with me

i suggest you read my posts again carefully and report anything you feel is anything other than, just my opinion.

VinegarTits Thu 31-Jan-13 14:35:29

Eliza again, you are entitled to report any of my posts where you feel i have 'attached' the op (if you can find any) smile

elizaregina Thu 31-Jan-13 14:25:23

No I also take great issue with your posts becasuse the op has written she carefully considered whether to post on here or not - she said thanks to all who gave her advice " including those who said IABU in a POLITE way", she is open minded and then goes on to say she has been shocked and in tears due to the OTHER type of responses. Which to her personally and to others on here have seemed in polite and totally un neccasry in thier tone.

Others like myself have been worried about this lady and her state of mind and we have been posting to hopefully balance out some of the more vitriolic posts we feel are quite dangerous to a mum who has been through what she has been through and has a small baby in her charge.

We dont feel thrusting your opionons on her over and over and over again and as Trucks said - calling her " bitter" etc are helpful comments to make to a lady who seems to be in a state of great pain. Hopefully she has not read anymore anyway.

I think someone mentioned earlier - its like kicking a dog when its already down.

( I am sorry to speak for the other kinder posters on here but this is how I feel and I am getting your feeling this too...)

VinegarTits Thu 31-Jan-13 12:54:45

and feel free to report any of my posts if you feel they are inappropriate or personally attacking anyone, having an opinion that is different to yours doesnt make me a bad person

VinegarTits Thu 31-Jan-13 12:52:33

Trucks dont assume you know if my situation was difficult because you dont, in fact doing what was best for my ds was easy not difficult, you are only uncomfortable with my posts because my opinion differs from yours, its something that you really need to get over smile

TrucksAndDinosaurs Thu 31-Jan-13 12:23:45

VT years ago you had a difficult time and made a difficult choice, one you feel was right for your DC.

The OP and others posting have also shared experiences of difficult times and difficult choices they feel they made which were right for their DC (and them) at the time. People continue to make choices and choices can change.

I am a bit uncomfortable with your posts on this thread; it's coming over as if your way and the choices you made are the only choices anyone should make at whatever time. I don't think that's fair and on this thread, I think it is overly abrasive and a bit U. The OP for example is a new mother and deep,y hurt and grieving. Hectoring and insisting and using words like bitter and controlling are not helpful and IMO hurtful, unnecessarily so.

On a support thread a bit of support and kindness would not go amiss.
People can be supported in making difficult choices and given space to explore them, they don't need to be harangued and told off for not making he same choice at the time time that someone else did.

Feel free to respond defensively and attack me if you wish.

VinegarTits Thu 31-Jan-13 10:59:59

yes but its the way you put it kickass 'I wont allow my...' like she is your possession and he is not allowed a say in it

if you have both come to an agreement that its not in her best interests then fair nuff

kickassmomma Thu 31-Jan-13 10:45:04

Vinegar tits like I said there are deeper personal reasons! It is not in the safety of dd to stay at her fathers overnight ever.... But there is no stopping him havin her more in the day! Infact the overnight issue was free by BOTH of us

VinegarTits Thu 31-Jan-13 10:05:38

im taking about the context its used in on this thread and you well know it

JenaiMorris Thu 31-Jan-13 09:37:57

Oh come on VT, how often on MN to people refer to "our dc"?

I wouldn't read to much into that tbh.

VinegarTits Thu 31-Jan-13 09:22:46

funny how most of the posters who think she is well within reason to control contact the way is is doing, refer to their own children as 'my', your child has 2 parents and has rights to get to spend time with both parents

I wont very allow my daughter to stay at her dads overnight no matter what age!!

i feel very sorry for your dd, i hope she doesnt resent you for that when she is old enough to understand

kickassmomma Wed 30-Jan-13 23:01:49

You are not being unreasonable!! I wont very allow my daughter to stay at her dads overnight no matter what age!!there are more personal reasons for this but the point I'm making is that it doesn't matter how ok the child is both parents need to feel comfortable about the whole overnight situation, if not then it should be left for a while and approached later on smile

lovetomoan Wed 30-Jan-13 22:50:05

I am with seenenough on this:

This is a 4 month old baby!!! Do those of you who have babies/children remember what a 4 month old is like to look after? Do you remember the feeling of not wanting baby OUT OF YOUR SIGHT at that age??? The FEAR of something terrible happening, of worrying that if any harm came to your new baby your heart would break and life wouldn't even be worth living???? That comes from GIVING BIRTH!! The pain you endured for 24 hours to bring it into the world that bonds you to that baby like NO other creature on earth in those early months

Thank you Emilythorne

FanFuckingTastic Wed 30-Jan-13 21:23:01

Dictating the boundaries and being in control are both just undermining him as a caregiver. It might not be directly malicious, but it is a way of hitting back at him because of his previous relationship antics, and thus not really in best interests. I would urge compromise between them both, allowing mum to get used to the idea with short sessions away from her, and building up, but really after that he's the parent too, this sort of behaviour is not beneficial to children and it's better to to start out as you mean to continue.

His judgement should be valued if he believes the OW is not a risk, then you have got to trust him, or give him the same power to veto things in your life because as the mother you do not have sole rights to decide what happens with the baby born to two parents.

I've stopped contact only once and that was when I began to see that my ex's relationship was abusive and affecting my DS. It was the only time I would ever feel justified in doing so, because I can't imagine him not being equal parent otherwise. So he doesn't do things exactly the way I do, finding flimsy excuses about falling asleep is just denial, so long as he is a good enough parent who cares about his child, I can't see the reason not to allow contact.

elizaregina Wed 30-Jan-13 21:12:34

op has said she is more than happy to have regular contact but at the moment - at her house becasue she doesnt know the other woman and has heard dubious things about her.

I guess the questions are -

does he want contact so much he will for the moment put up with it at or from the ops house,

AND: does a 4 month old baby know its being held by its dad in its mums house or in his OW house!

If the contact is all some posters are concerned with - she is allowing it - so he can continue to bond with the child.

surely where right now - is immaterial.

I have a four month old myself and I really dont think she knows where she is at the moment! AND she certainbly will not rememeber excatly where she was on a certain day when she was four months old.

DreamingOfTheMaldives Wed 30-Jan-13 19:00:16

Fan and Word have both put it far more eloquently than I could. I agree with you both completely

wordfactory Wed 30-Jan-13 18:55:51

fan all the research seems to support you and your actions. The outcomes for DC who have had regular contact with the NRP are more positive than those without.

And there is large amounts of data showing how many NRFs drop out of the scene after a few years. They are less likely to do so if they have had regular contact with their DC actively encouraged by the RM.

wordfactory Wed 30-Jan-13 18:51:58

millie it's got nothing to do with supporting the father or otherwise.

It's about putting the child's long term interests at the heart of things. And the child's long term interests usually lie in having a close relationship with both parents.

Preventing this process from starting to either punish the father for his misdeeds, or to succour the OP's hurt feelings have zero to do with the child's long term interests.

It's harsh but there it is. Courts are very clear on this. Unless there are very obvious reasons to prevent or keep contact at a minimum, then contact should be of prime importance. Behaviour in the relationship is imaterial. Child support is imaterial. Feelings are imaterial.

The child's right to have a deep and close relationship with both parents trumps those things.

FanFuckingTastic Wed 30-Jan-13 18:43:29

I'm not supporting the dad or the mum, I am supporting the child.

I was left seven weeks pregnant, with a toddler and disabled and I coped. It's not easy, but when that little girl was born I promised I would do my best for her. So I let her have contact, and go overnight... but he wasn't really reliable, so let it taper off and stopped making the effort.

The moment she came to me upset about not seeing her daddy, I contacted him and arranged it so she could, because to me it's not about my worry about him being a fit father that takes precedence, it's her happiness and well being. That meant visits and overnight stays, and now I bust my ass getting her to and from his house because it's important to her.

Loads of people have said to me to stop because he doesn't make that effort himself, he doesn't deserve her apparently, and all sorts of things, be better off without him. But to me that is not my choice to make, it's hers, and as a baby I had to act selflessly in her best interests too, to have that bond with her father was very important, more important than my feelings of finding it difficult to let her go.

We made a baby together, our parenting might not be equal, but without him I would not have her, and she deserves to have that relationship and not be denied two loving parents simply because one of them has issues with their relationship. There is loads of support, as shown here on Mumsnet to help her get through it, it's actually not as bad as you might think, there are benefits to being able to rest and recharge when they are young, and as they get older this bond facilitates things like hospital visits, education, working, social life (plucking examples from my own life).

DreamingOfTheMaldives Wed 30-Jan-13 18:21:12

But Millie, can't you see that she isn't putting the baby first, she is putting her own feelings first and has admitted that. It is her own feelings of distress at them 'playing happy families at their love nest' which is the reason for refusing visits at his home. She says that quite clearly in her OP.

Yes he dumped her and that was terrible timing, and i can appreciate how awful it must have been for her, but would you have told a woman that she must stay with a man because she had just found out she was pregnant, even though the pregnancy wasn't planned and she didn't want to be with him. When do you think would have been a suitable time for him to dump her?!

There are who don't want be at the birth even when they are with their partners. On other threads exes who have wanted to be at the birth have been told it's not a spectator sport!

The OP has said that he does pay maintanace, not regularly but generously. Not ideal I know but he is paying.

Isn't it funny how I can be called kind by KC225 for mentioning that contact at the OP's house doesn't allow her to recover and move on but am called an automaton who lacks in empathy by Emily!

Emilythornesbff Wed 30-Jan-13 18:09:58

I know millie. It's quite upsetting.

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