To want sleep?

[miniegg1980]

Sorry for posting here, but problem seems to cover so many topics. (also posted in chat gor traffic)

I have a gorgeous almost 6 month old ds2 who is the happiest thing during the day but won't sleep. He naps during the day for up to 45 mins (1 and 1/2 hours on a good day) at night he's in bed by 7 but can wake again anytime after 8.30.

I feed him at 10 and then he'll wake at 12, 2/3, 4, 5, 6,7. Screaming. He'll then have loads of wind which sounds like a real struggle and eventually calm.

He doesn't always want milk, but just screams as if in agony. Majority of time after 3 he will refuse his cot and only sleep on me. He likes milk for the comfort.

He was doing better until he got a nasty cough at xmas. He still has a constant blocked nose which the dr has told me he'll grow out of.

I started weaning at 4 months as he's a big lad (and with ds1 helped him sleep) with advice from dr and hv. But its not making any difference (has stopped him pooing up to 10 times a day). He loved it to begin with, but now its like he can't be bothered.

Dh thinks i fed him too early and should now stop until hes officially 6 months on feb 4th.

I don't know what to do. Tried baby massage and gripe water. Nothing seems to help. I need sleep!

Any advice more than welcome x

[thing1andthing2]

You described my ds perfectly, except he will be 7 months very soon. Right down to the wind and the blocked nose. And the starting to eat well but now refusing.
I have no idea what to do to be honest. I've tried versions of everything, controlled crying even, which doesn't work because as soon as I go in to see him he's all smiles and perfectly wide awake ... Bless him!
So far I have tried: live yoghurt which has helped his digestion and wind.
Giving up spoon feeding and switching to baby led weaning.
Propping his cot up or him in bed with me on a pillow to keep his nose from blocking up... This worked for a while. Not needed anymore.
I tried preventing him from having his late nap at 5pm ish but it just made it worse.
Now i sleep in the spare room in bed with him.
And for pure survival, I feed him again at about 9.30, go to bed in my own bed at 10 and DH stays up or goes to bed in the spare room with ds (whose cot is in the spare room). Then I get woken by DH for another feed at around 2. DH and I swap and I do all the rest of the night feeds. This way I get a 4 hour unbroken stretch which just keeps me going. Ds doesn't seem to cry or sleep any more or less whether it is me or DH there at the beginning of the night but he definitely needs that feed after about 4 hours.
All I keep saying is this too shall pass. I have a feeling it is a second baby thing, wanting to hog all of mums attention and cuddles in the night.

[13Iggis]

YANBU to want sleep, of course. Your ds's wakingsa sound the same as mine at 6 months (he's now 8 months) only difference being he wants nursed back to sleep everytime, would only scream if I didn't pick him up. If he's not interested in solids now and is still not 6 months I wouldn't give him those either. Quite surprised your hcps suggested solids on the basis of him being a "big baby", not very scientific surely. Has reflux been ruled out? Seems a shame to say he's condemned to a blocked nose till he grows out of it, how is he supposed to feed comfortably? If you don't get the answers you need here, the feeding board has given me brilliant advice in the past, especially about all sorts of intolerances your baby might have. (Good luck)

[miniegg1980]

Thank you both for the comments. Good to know i'm not alone. Was advised to start feeding at 17 weeks as he weighed over a stone, sleeping erratic and he seemed interested - and did love it, mouth open for the spoon and had even started some finger food. But now not interested. Don't know whether to stop till feb 4th as dh suggestes??

Thanks 13 will post again in there xx

[thing1andthing2]

It's only just over a week, it can't hurt to stop giving him food. Sometimes if its becoming a battle ground then backing off for a few days really helps. I've just had to do that with ds who was screaming through family meal times. I have completely stopped spoon feeding him, and just sit him in his high chair with some bits and bobs in front of him. He seems much happier.
He was also a big baby (20lb at 20 weeks) but weaning has made sleep worse, not better :-(

[DoJo]

Sound a lot like my son who is suffering from a lot of wind due to the bacteria in his gut being depleted through antibiotics after a LONG series of fairly minor infections. We have gone lactose free for a while to try and give his system a chance to reset itself - it might be worth speaking to your GP about this as a possibility. Mine was a big boy too, around the same weight as yours, but we didn't wean until 6 months and stopped solids altogether when he was ill as he was having so much digestive trouble!

[miniegg1980]

Well we stopped all solids yesterday and last night was the worst yet. Pretty much woke e ery hour with wind or wanting to be fed.

Had this since he was born and really not coping now. Its effecting everyone in the house

[BambieO]

Ah mini that must be difficult. Was he taking a lot of solid food? We're you substituting that for his formula? Sorry for twenty questions but all I have is myself to reference and at the moment DS has just started weaning but I am keeping his normal milk feeds as he doesn't eat a huge amount and it seems to be working. He is also a big baby.

[13Iggis]

Oh dear, poor you (and him). Could he be allergic to something in the milk? Have you tried different kinds (if ff)? Mine benefitted from infant gaviscon, but his symptoms were different.
I don't think it is normal to have so much wind (if that is what it is - can be so hard to work out what they are about). For instance, mine wakes a lot and cries out at the moment, but far as I can tell it is because he's practising crawling in his head.

[miniegg1980]

Hi bambieo, he would happily be bf all day, but was actually getting some freedom with 3 small meals a day and heseemed so happy, its just night times

[miniegg1980]

Hi 13, it could be anything.....!! But its been going on since he was born. The hv organised some baby massage but it didn't help.

Am trying to get him on the bottle now but he is so stubborn

[DragonMamma]

If he was pooing 10 times a day I'm surprised they didn't get him checked out.

My DS was exactly the same, he was huge and all the HV's dismissed me. It wasn't until I spoke to a sensible paed that he diagnosed him as cows milk protein intolerant and lactose intolerant. Because he has CMPI intolerance LF formula was no good. He's now on Nutramigen and slept like a log since we swapped. He also had silent reflux and IIRC, a 'cold'/sniffles can also be a sign.

Have you tried raising his cot to see if that helps?

[miniegg1980]

Thanks dragon the dr has told me he'll grow out of it.....he constantly has a blocked nose! Tried raising the cot, putting a pillow under the mattress and putting him on a pillow (much to the hv disgust)

How do they test for this?

[BambieO]

I think if he was happy with his solids then maybe you should persevere? Only if you and DH are happy to of course. Lots of people wean from around 4 months, not everyone waits until the deemed 6 months as all babies are different. Some digestive systems are still too sensitive others adapt brilliantly, it's all down to the baby.

It sounds like your DS was ready so maybe you could try again? Was there anything in particular he 'went off of' or just the process in general?

The first few days of my DS having solids (he is 5 months on Thursday) didnt make much difference as he was mainly experimenting and still is but I am not sure if it is just coincidence or routine but he has finally started sleeping through. He does still have all of his normal feeds of milk but we experiment with foods in between meals and once he is ready will start 'breakfast lunch and dinner' with milk as the supplement.

I really feel for you both. Tiredness is awful and there is just no way to prepare for it wait can be so persistent.

Does the HV have any advice for you? Does DS have a dummy? Can he generally settle himself during the day?

[miniegg1980]

He's been really good at sttling for a morning nap of an hour, lunch he will only sleep for 45 mins in cot and settles nicely at 7...... So not great at sleeping (not like ds1)

We started solids at 17 weeks thinking it would help, having a varied diet, more to eat....but not got any better.

After the awfulness of last night he has just slept and fed today and is refusing cot.

Just don't knowvwhat to do.

Thank you so much for your replies and concerns, makes me feel i'm not alone xxxxx

[DragonMamma]

They tested his nappies for stool reducing substances, it came back positive and they put him on hypoallergenic formula. I had to really push for it though but was straightforward after that although I have heard of GP's not wanting to prescribe it because it's ridiculously expensive.

[BambieO]

You definitely aren't alone! This place can be a godsend for things like this.

It sounds like you are doing everything you can, do you have a boggling feeling or a suspicion that it may be something like silent reflux as other posters have mentioned or do you feel like it's just baby being a minx and stubborn sometimes I do genuinely think they know what they are doing to get what they want hahahaha.

It's so hard as being so tired makes you question yourself and question everything. Especially when you hear tales of all of the magical babies that sleep through from the day they come home!

Hopefully it will only be temporary. Is he teething at all? Could that be a factor?

[BambieO]

Hahaha niggling not boggling

[miniegg1980]

Thank you bambie, teething, trying to crawl, wanting to be like his big brother.....and yes sometimes i feel there is something wrong....lother times i think hes a stubborn little buggar who knows exactly what hes doing!!

[Shellington]

What are you feeding him? Too much fruit / some types of veg can be very windy.

A week is not going to make much difference, but they go through different stages and maybe after initial interest / experimenting it might just be that a slight tweak to routine or types or quantities are needed?

[BambieO]

I really hope he is just being mischievous and it doesn't last. I really do know first hand (as I'm sure most on here do) how bad tiredness can be. Everything seems so much harder doesn't it.

Hopefully once he is crawling around after his big brother he will tire himself out!

I really hope some other mumsnetters have some good advice for you

[Shellington]

Are you BF btw? And are you co-sleeping or would it be an option? I haven't had a full nights sleep in about 4 years. A nap would be nice about now :)

[miniegg1980]

Thank you so much. Fingers crossed xx

[miniegg1980]

Yup bf, his cot is next to the bed with side off, but have only managed about two full night in it since hes been born. On a good night will sleep on and off until 4 and then i'll give up and he'll sleep on me (thats after waking 12, 2, 3).

Poor you shellington, my 3yr old still makes appearances! Last night he appeared like a visitation saying something about a fish in his belly!

[Shellington]

Just when 1st DC started sleeping better, 2nd came along... Who is now age 2 and sleeps about the same as your DS - same set up, BF etc. I may never sleep again.

Have you changed your diet at all? Do you drink enough? Does a dose of bonjella or calpol for teething help at all?

[miniegg1980]

I feel i may never sleep again either! I haven't changed my diet, started thinking about it, read it would take 4 weeks to notice a difference and would really like him on the bottle in 4 weeks.....

We have tried calpol and nurofen and bonjela, hopefuuly hv can help tomorrow