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To wonder why so many women are in denial about misogyny?

(807 Posts)
seeker Tue 22-Jan-13 21:31:38

What do they get out of insisting that men are subject to exactly the same level of discrimination and abuse as women? That Mary Beard, for example, would have been treated in the same way if she had been a man?

I just don't get it.

seeker Wed 23-Jan-13 01:05:57

Do they have their faces superimposed on a cock and balls? Has their pubic hair ever been a subject of debate?

ZooAnimals Wed 23-Jan-13 01:14:25

It's too depressing not to be.

The same reason I'm in denial about who made my primark jumper and what sort of conditions the chickens whose eggs I had for tea lived in and how much the farmers who provide my non-fairtrade tea/chocolate get and just how many children worldwide are living in abject poverty and about a billion other things I'm in denial about.

To think about all the injustices in the world everyday is just too depressing.

delboysfileofax Wed 23-Jan-13 01:23:36

@seeker. I dont know. But thats not what I was saying. It was said males dont get judged on their looks. They do.

ZooAnimals Wed 23-Jan-13 01:29:41

If it's of any relevance we used to have fairly lengthy discussions about which boys did/did not have a 'wanker's tash' and whether we liked/did not like a wanker's tash on a boy when we were at school, but I've never seen it mentioned in the media.

Greythorne Wed 23-Jan-13 06:44:00

I have never heard of a wanker's tash.

There's something qualitatively and quantitively different about the comments meted out on appearance for women and men.

If you can't see that, there is something wrong with your brain.

fatfinger Wed 23-Jan-13 07:03:50

I think the trouble with feminist 'debate' is that feminists generally do not allow anyone to have a differing opinion without being told to fuck off or being accused of being in some conspiracy with men to further their own agenda.

I don't believe that misogyny is something I encounter much in day to day life, I have no problems with bringing up my daughter in the uk, I do not believe that she will be denied opportunities on the basis of her gender.

In answer to another comment, I don't think that I am hated for my race either, and I don't think that makes me a knob.

HollyBerryBush Wed 23-Jan-13 07:07:35

Well, I've seen enough slating of the Milliband brother, apparently looking like an effigy from Wallace and Grommit, and on this forum too! Thus showing that aesthetic attributes are valued by women - who can equally dish it out if someone isn't pleasing to the eye.

Greythorne Wed 23-Jan-13 07:11:27


seeker Wed 23-Jan-13 07:16:25

So is your contention that there is no difference between the language used to describe women and the language used to describe men? That had Mary Beard been a man exactly the same would have happened?

KhallDrogo Wed 23-Jan-13 07:17:16

fat fingers are you saying misogyny and racism don't exist?

Greythorne Wed 23-Jan-13 07:18:44

I wonder how many people will keep posting stories of David Beckhan's socks and Milliband's resemblance to a cartoon? It adds so much to the debate.

Sorry, 'debate'. Thanks for the inverted commas, fatfinger . Patronizing much?

HollyBerryBush Wed 23-Jan-13 07:38:37

I forgot. you just daredn't have an opinion that goes aginst the feministas on this board.

So much for free speech, entitlement to hold alternative views.

Some of you put back womens causes so much by being so right on radical.

redexpat Wed 23-Jan-13 07:42:49

Some women just don't experience it, so they don't think it happens. Because everything is normal. It's normal to only see men's sport on the tv, but to read in the tabloids about what the wives do. It's normal to only hear about women in history as wives or suffragettes, normal to talk about 'our boys' overseas, normal to see fairly elderly men on tv but no female newsreaders over the age of 50, it's normal to see women with nice clothes and makeup so then those that don't really stand out... I could go on and on. <sighs>

TheOriginalLadyFT Wed 23-Jan-13 07:52:46

And some of you keep women from achieving equality in society by denying misogyny

David Beckham being teased for wearing white socks is not comparable to Mary Beard being threatened with having a penis pushed into her mouth to keep her quiet

purrpurr Wed 23-Jan-13 08:00:40

In my personal experience, having a man deny misogyny is far worse than women denying it. I live with a man who just plain doesn't see it. We're about to have a daughter. When I found out, I was sad. Attitudes to women are not going to change in my lifetime, or my daughter's lifetime. It's depressing as fuck.

perfectstorm Wed 23-Jan-13 08:06:53

I think for the same reason people on quite low incomes, dependent on tax credits, say they hate "benefit scroungers". You don't want to think you are one of the marginalised, detested group. And when women say girls who've been raped are whores.

I don't know if everyone here has heard of the awful Steubenville rape case? Well, this is what a local 27 year old nurse, Deirdre Myers, had to say about the victim: This is a woman who cares for ill people. Worrying, when she appears to lack a soul.

Incidentally, the victim had dated one of the friends of the charged boys for a year. He'd gone on and on on Twitter about how much in love with her he was. So not only is what she is saying nasty misogynist victim-blaming, because even if she were a "train whore" (prepared to sleep with all of them) that wouldn't make alleged rape of an unconscious victim okay - but it is obvious bullshit. No popular, high achieving athlete - he's on the football and baseball teams in a town that worships their players - would have dated a girl seen that way. His own reputation would rely on it. So as soon as rape charges are laid, her reputation was being trashed - by the football coaches, by the boys' lawyers (despite there being rape shield provisions in Ohio, that mean past sexual history is inadmissable) but by random local women, too. This over a case where some of the witnesses, as in they are now in court giving sworn testimony, made this video about the girl the same night she was raped: WARNING - it's very. very disturbing. They are roaring with laughter about a rape, repeatedly calling it one, and going into some detail about how she didn't respond at all. They keep calling her "dead". If you have triggers then please, don't watch it. Yet women in that local area are still calling her a whore and still blaming her.

You know what the victim has done? Lots of people have offered money to her for legal fees, or a college fund. Her lawyer is acting on a pro bono basis and her parents say they can manage her college costs, so she has asked that donations be made to a refuge for abused women. I made a small donation via Paypal in her name, because it seemed so important that she knows people care about what happened to her, and believe her. The YWCA who run that shelter are obviously a hugely reputable charity, and solely focused on helping young women (it's changed its name over here, to better reflect the diversity it now focuses on internationally) so it's also a good cause in and of itself.

I think, again, it's a way of making out that misogyny doesn't apply to them. That they play by the rules, are good girls, don't do risky things, and that they are therefore respected by men and exempt from the sexism we all live with. I also think that most prejudice is so entrenched and accepted that it's invisible. There was a thread on here where an Asian woman tried to explain the cultural background to a family issue, and poster after poster totally ignored her explanations that her culture was different and impatiently told her that she was being ridiculous, because her issue wouldn't be an issue in most households in this country, so to them it couldn't be an issue in another culture. There was this weird blindness to the notion that there even could be another culture. And no dominant group or culture like to be told that they're being prejudiced - they prefer to roll their eyes at the idea, and claim over-sensitivity. And a lot of women, I think, accept that idea unthinkingly, because they're constantly told it. In the same way that Americans made a huge fuss about Delhi, but ignored Steubenville until that awful video came out.

perfectstorm Wed 23-Jan-13 08:14:58

Sorry, corrrected links:

The facebook postings of a mid-20s nurse, about an underage rape victim she did not know, making (untrue, as it happens) claims about the victim's morals, as a way to justify her rape

The incredibly disturbing video some of the boys involved in the Steubenville case made on that night - warning: it's impossible to understate how disturbing their words are - which apparently don't deter women such as the one above from defending them

The Steubenville Jane Doe has requested that people who wanted to give her money instead donate to this charity, a refuge for abused women in her area

I know which of the above three links paint a picture of a person with grace and dignity. yet funnily enough, she's the one being called the whore. Not the boys, who got their dicks out in a group setting and were panting after sex with anything and anyone - conscious or not. Yet nobody has questioned their promiscuity or casual approach to sexuality. Funny, that.

Girls are at school with those boys. Why are their parents allowing it? I wouldn't let my daughter attend a school with kids who'd expressed views like that in the immediate aftermath of a rape - would you?

delboysfileofax Wed 23-Jan-13 08:18:10

So initially it was a case of "this wouldnt happen to a man" and yet when other posters prove it can and does its quickly shifted to.."well its not the same its just so much worse for women"

one poster pointed out David Beckham being targetted for his looks- that apparently was just a mild ribbing and besides he's white and rich so thats ok

The political figures have been mentioned- well they dont count because the nature of the insults used toward Mary Beard were worse

Greythorne Wed 23-Jan-13 08:25:32

Right on the money, perfectstorm

KhallDrogo Wed 23-Jan-13 08:29:30

Can you really not see the difference dellboy?

AnyFucker Wed 23-Jan-13 08:30:19

Del, I hope for your sake your last facile post crossed with perfectstorms

Otherwise, it looks like you are doggedly sticking to your "it happens to men too" yapping in the face of something much much worse

If you can't see that, you have no place on a parenting website

KhallDrogo Wed 23-Jan-13 08:32:06

And thanks for the links perfectstorm I followed the thread about the stubenville rape. That video is the most frightening thing I have ever seen. I will be making a donation

delboysfileofax Wed 23-Jan-13 08:36:36

anyfucker- yes it did but the post perfectstorm put up has nothing to do with what was being debated.

It was said Mary Beard's appearance was slated because she's a woman and this wouldnt happen to a male. People have shown it does and now a poster links to an unrelated story

Please tell me who is threatening David Beckham with sexual violence because he wore the wrong colour socks?

If you really don't believe this happens, just look at the way the Sun treated Clare Short when she tried to get Page 3 banned. And the behaviour of some of the public then was shocking. She got comments like "you are too ugly to rape" sent to her. Think about the level of hatred of women that sort of reaction shows. Do you really think a man who talked about banning page 3 would have had that said to him?

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