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to sypport dd in pushing another child?

(61 Posts)
KhallDrogo Tue 22-Jan-13 18:46:18

In context...8 yo dd1 had a problem with an adult being over familiar. School was involved with warning him off, unwanted hugs from stranger. Motives a bit blurry, but think just inappropriate rather than anything sinister

So, we have had a number of talks about her being able to say 'no' to anyone if they are doing something she doesn't like, and I have made it clear she can shout and push.

Now...boy at school was fooling around, teasing and kissing her. She asked him to stop, he didn't. She pushed him and he fell over. She has been told off by teacher. She tried to speak to her own teacher about what happened, but she was told 'this isn't the time'

She is upset, but I have reinforced that she did the right thing. AIBU? AND WIBU to speak to the teacher and say that I will continue to support this?

I understand teachers are busy in the play ground and can't get involved in every little to-do; but she asked him to stop herself, teacher too busy/uninterested...

SamSmalaidh Tue 22-Jan-13 23:24:09

If someone won't leave her alone and she can't get away, then pushing and shouting is fine (and should be encouraged).

I agree with others who have suggested you give her some alternative responses - shouting, walking away, finding a teacher.

But if she can't get away or is feeling threatened or frightened then a hard shove is a perfectly appropriate approach.

KhallDrogo Tue 22-Jan-13 23:25:23

scribbler I would expect her to stop at a punch at school age

My intention is to equip her with skills and confidence to deck anyone, in self-defence as she gets older

DeepRedBetty Tue 22-Jan-13 23:31:24

If any boy had started 'chatting her up', telling her she was beautiful/has nice hair etc etc. ' with either of my dds when they were eight they would have been laughed at, and then shoved across the playground a damn sight harder than yours did

You need to find out exactly what the teacher thinks happened, and if necessary remind her why your dd even more than most children needs support about what's appropriate contact and what isn't.

Greensleeves Tue 22-Jan-13 23:33:47

but the school should be actively teaching the children that they have sovereignty over their own bodies and that they should be respecting others' personal space

if this isn't happening, I would ask the Head what they intend to do about it.

jjuice Wed 23-Jan-13 00:12:51

Yanbu both my dd and ds are armed with jujitsu skills after my ds was bullied by a group of kids including girls for over 12 months.
Although I have warned them about appropriate use. To me touching and kissing after saying no is appropriate use for pushing away. If a man did that to me I wouldn't push him away I would body drop him and punch his lights out.

jjuice Wed 23-Jan-13 00:13:29

Btw Love the name op. Game of thrones hmm

mrsjay Wed 23-Jan-13 08:48:43

he said the boy was playing, laughing and not being nasty. He was 'chatting her up', telling her she was beautiful/has nice hair etc etc. But she didn't want to play and told him so and moved away repeatedly. She doesn't like being kissed at all, not even by me. So, I can imagine that was her final straw

you know what reading this she did the right thing and so did you, I would talk to her about not just pushing anybody IYSWIM, but this was unwanted advances she was right to stand up for herself,

I wasn't stalking you by remembering your thread but sometimes things stick in memory smile

TantrumsAndBalloons Wed 23-Jan-13 08:57:19

You definitley did the right thing and so did dd.
my dd has has done martial arts and boxing since age 10.
I fully expect her to use these skills if anyone is touching/kissing her against her will after she has told them to stop.
I would also expect her to shout very loudly and draw as much attention to herself as possible.

Surely we are supposed to teach our children that no one has a right to touch or kiss you after you say no? And if they don't listen to act to defend themselves?

I'd be having a word with the school, she should have been given the time to explain the situation to the teacher and the teacher should have dealt with the boys behaviour.

Well done for teaching her that no one has the right to touch her or kiss her against her will and giving her the confidence to act on that.
She is very lucky to have your support.

TantrumsAndBalloons Wed 23-Jan-13 08:59:52

And the OP said she tried to tell the teacher but she didn't want to listen. That's not going to give her any confidence in going to that teacher again is it?

Grumpla Wed 23-Jan-13 09:09:59

My mum always told me that if anyone touched my body inappropriately I should kick them in the goolies, and run away shouting. If it was a grownup, I should headbutt them in the goolies, and then run away shouting. I always felt that was fairly good advice but maybe I am in the minority here.

I think you definitely need to query with the teacher the reason that this behaviour has not been stamped on way before it got to the point that it did.

In your position I'd be fairly apoplectic with rage irritated that sexual assault seems to have been dismissed as "boys will be boys" or whatever and a single shove to get away has been punished.

boredSAHMof4 Wed 23-Jan-13 09:32:51

I am just wondering if this boy has a SN.It doesn't seem normal an 8 yr old boy telling a girl her hair is nice and trying to kiss her.Most boys that age think girls are icky and would have their eyes poked out rather than kiss one!!

mrsjay Wed 23-Jan-13 09:35:01

am just wondering if this boy has a SN.It doesn't seem normal an 8 yr old boy telling a girl her hair is nice and trying to kiss her.Most boys that age think girls are icky and would have their eyes poked out rather than kiss one!!

a lot of boys are like this nowadays they all want to 'ask out girls' etc kids are growing up far too fast ime I dont think SN has to come into this really, (girls talk about boys at 8 )

boredSAHMof4 Wed 23-Jan-13 09:48:26

we must be a bit backward where we are then lol! Girls might talk about boys (a bit) but boys are definitely not interested in anything like that at all

mrsjay Wed 23-Jan-13 09:49:37

maybe not all boys obviously when dd was that age boys were talking about asking girls out I was shock as I thought boys at that age were all eww about girls,

KhallDrogo Wed 23-Jan-13 09:57:49

I'm confident that the boy doesn't have any SN. I only know him vaguely, but he appears NT. He has been lovely, anytime I've spent with him. I don't think his behaviour is unusual at all, I imagine he just got a bit exuberant

Thanks for the reassurances. Sometimes I find it hard to trust ny judgement completely. Especially given recent events. And I was raised to be quite a 'just play nicely, don't make a fuss' kind of way. Bur then its taken me years to realise I am justified in setting my boundaries and defend them. I want my dcs to know this from the start

Branleuse Wed 23-Jan-13 10:01:56

i would have supported my dd here too

CrapBag Wed 23-Jan-13 10:06:21

I remember your previous thread and the outcome. Glad that is sorted.

I think given that she told the boy to leave her alone and he didn't means that she did the right thing in pushing him away. She is learning that she doesn't have to put up with something she doesn't like, hopefully he is learning that when someone says stop then they mean stop (and I don't just mean in a male/female type situation but in general).

WilsonFrickett Wed 23-Jan-13 10:33:44

I would definitely go into school and discuss it. If nothing else, it sounds like there should be some class discussion about respect.

My DS has SN and is a target for bullies, however I believe that physical violence is wrong, every time, so I don't teach him to push. I teach him to say no, shout no, then find a teacher. I think you are 100% right to empower DD to respect her own boundaries but I don't believe she should use force to do this - particularly as it's a strategy that won't work for her in the future and may even escalate things in later life. For eg, 10 years down the line and this happens with a drunk bloke in a bar, pushing him will escalate the situation and inflame it. There are better choices to be made to protect yourself IMO.

KhallDrogo Wed 23-Jan-13 11:03:42

My intention is that she will be capable of breaking bones in 10 years time

I disagree, I think physically defending yourself is OK

Goldmandra Wed 23-Jan-13 11:13:16

As adults we are permitted to use reasonable force. It seems logical for children to be taught to do the same.

If she was able to stop him from holding her/kissing her by turning around and walking away, preferably to tell a teacher, she should have done that.

If he was strong enough to stop her from walking away or had her cornered and it was the only way to get his hands off her she did the right thing.

No child is likely to get a teacher's attention by shouting in a playground unless the teacher is already watching them. You have to shout just to have a conversation when you are a few inches away!

If my DD told me that she had asked him to stop and he was preventing her from getting away I would back her to hilt in pushing him off.

The school needs to have an assembly on using their hands appropriately.

TantrumsAndBalloons Wed 23-Jan-13 11:14:29

sometimes you have no option other than to defend yourself physically.

gymmummy64 Wed 23-Jan-13 11:31:59

I had a somewhat similar incident with my DD. She whacked the boy involved who promptly went and told a teacher. My DD was hauled into the head's office. Head's (understandable) position was that the school has zero tolerance on physical violence between children or children to adults so although she agreed my DD had been severely provoked and understood the reasons for my DD's frustration, she couldn't condone the behaviour. The rules are to seek out an adult rather than retaliate physically.

I can completely see why the school has to give this message - they can't be picking and choosing between 'acceptable' violence and 'unacceptable' violence.

However, I think this system breaks down when the kids' experience of 'seeking out an adult' is so bland and unhelpful. Most of the time they seem to get brushed off and sent back to play.

BarbarianMum Wed 23-Jan-13 11:41:39

I like Goldmantra's post but that is quite complicated for a child to judge so I wouldn't particularly blame her for getting to pushing earlier (assuming the boy in question wasn't 4 or something).

It may be worth showing her how to push people away firmly but gently. We are having to do this with ds2 (5) as one of the little girls in his class is rather over-affectionate with him, which he hates, and won't stop when asked. Her mum thinks it cute and he should be grateful hmm. But she is half his size so obviously he can't send her flying.

YorkshireDeb Wed 23-Jan-13 11:45:58

I think you are right to teach her to defend her boundaries but if she is going to do this with physical force she needs to be prepared to accept the consequences too. From a school perspective they cannot condone a child pushing another so hard that they fall over - what if he'd hit his head on something hard as he fell? The children who get into most fights at school are often children who say "mum/dad tells me if someone hits me I should hit back" as they are unable to distinguish between a physical attack & an accidental bump from someone not looking where they're going. I try to tell my pupils that if they tell me what someone has done there's only one person in the wrong & I can tell off that person but if they hurt that person there's two people in the wrong & I have to deal with them both. As a parent I intend to teach my ds to stick up for himself but I'd also like him to accept the consequences of his actions. X

WilsonFrickett Wed 23-Jan-13 11:54:54

My intention is that my DS doesn't do that, but clearly we're on different paths. All I will say is don't expect school to back you up on that one. It is extremely difficult for them to give out a message that there's zero tolerance of violence except when someone thinks it's acceptable.

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