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to feel angry that every day my retirement seems to get poorer and further away?

(82 Posts)
Sleepysand Tue 15-Jan-13 12:40:45

When I trained I expected to be able to retire at 55. My colleagues ten years older than me have already retired but I am not entitled to my pension for 19 years. AIBU to resent that their benefits are ring-fenced when mine are taken away and my children will likely never get to retire?

expatinscotland Fri 18-Jan-13 22:49:44

Wonder how many people under 60 now think it's such a swell idea to live to 100+? Sure, fab if you're rich.

ShellyBoobs Fri 18-Jan-13 23:07:05

But don't you realise that pretty much everyone else is also in the same position?

People who aren't lucky enough to have a (still very generous) final salary pension are also staring down the barrel of a reduced pension.

They would have been told that the £100 per month they put in (or whatever it is) should be worth, say, £50,000 in 30 years' time. Only to find now that it's going to be worth half that.

No doubt someone will be along to say, "it's not a race to the bottom". Well no, it's not, but that argument only seems to get trotted out when it's someone with a still very generous pension feeling hard done by.

evansthebread Sat 19-Jan-13 00:38:31

I've seen my BIL, at 55 now, struggle for the last 10 years at his very physical job in a steel plant. A normal 9-5 pattern at that job would be hard enough but he works 12 hour day and night shifts. Sis seriously doubts he'll last til 67, yet alone retire then to enjoy it.

They also took out a private pension when they were all the rage (he's a contract worker so hasn't had a works pension). It was closed a few years back and is now, due to the robbing bastards running it taking commissions even though the money is sitting there doing nowt, dwindling rapidly.

The teachers living next door will retire considerably better off than most, whilst currently enjoying the long holiday and comparatively short working days and weekends off. Rant alert and nothing to do with pensions. Sis gets bouncingly pissed off when they decide to sit in their garden on sunny days with their Bose system cranked up full whack when they KNOW their neighbour is trying to sleep for his nightshift (sis has had numerous complaints about my BIL starting his car at 5.30 in the morning from them!! She suspects the music thing is a form of punishment for that as they go back inside the minute BIL is seen up and about). Rant over, sorry bout that.

I understand where you're coming from and think most of us can see your point, but I think you should be thankful for small mercies, you are more fortunate than a lot of people.

marriedinwhite Sat 19-Jan-13 08:45:44

The capability procedures are incredibly difficult to implement at any age but thank goodness Ofsted have now reclassified a grade 3 as needs improvement rather than satisfactory.

All workers need to perform and be present in accordance with their contracts of employment.I don't want my children receiving consistent grade 3 lessons regardless of the age of the teacher.

A chap we know is 64; has taken his pension, is working two days a week and tutoring about 7 sessions at 35 per hour.

thesnootyfox Sat 19-Jan-13 09:00:48

YANBU to feel resentful about the goalposts moving but I think it was inevitable really. We are sitting on a pension time bomb and it is only just starting to be addressed.

YABU to think that teachers have the monopoly on hard work. I'm getting a little fed up with teachers thinking that they are the only ones who are sitting up to 10:00 p.m in the evenings working and marking at the weekend. I don't doubt that teachers work hard but the rest of us do too. Last night I was up to 1:00 a.m. working on the laptop I actually enjoy what I do so it isn't really a hardship. I have no idea when/if I will ever retire. I have 13 years of pension contributions that amount to nothing.

KoalaTale Sat 19-Jan-13 09:14:53

Yabu, if you were a lawyer before surely you earned and saved a lot in the past? none of my business

I do have some sympathy but also understand the state pension system was untenable and needed changing. I'm in my thirties, private sector and pay 20% of my salary to a defined contribution scheme so I can hopefully retire at around 60, not guarantees though, if the stockmarket crashes so does my pension!at least yours is guaranteed?

DolomitesDonkey Sat 19-Jan-13 09:16:36

There will always be losers in Ponzi schemes.

Lara2 Sat 19-Jan-13 09:27:19

ShellyBoobs, I don't feel that my pension will be generous, if I retire at 65 I'll be bloody lucky to get 10k a year after working fulltime for 40 years! I think that's crap!
I don't think I'm a special case, but I do want what I signed up for and was promised - you have a degree and a postgrad qualification but we'll pay you pretty poorly and in return will make sure you're not living below the poverty line when you retire. I have 15 years left, possibly 18 and it's a scary prospect.

atacareercrossroads Sat 19-Jan-13 09:34:54

Yanbu, most of us are in this position regardless of our jobs. It's shit.

dajen Sat 19-Jan-13 09:36:19

Everyone has had to accept changes to the goal posts but those if final salary schemes are still so much luckier than those without. I have seen my state pension retirement age increase from 60 when I started work to 67 now. At least I am in a final salary scheme I have some idea what I will get from working and am aware that my employer pays 19% contributions to the scheme in addition to my 6%.

My husband has never worked for an employer with a pension scheme. When he started contributing to a private pension the annuity rate was about 15% (ie a pension pot of £100,000 on retirement would provide an income of about £15,000 at 65) Rates have continually reduced and now he would be lucky to get £5000 a year for the same pot and who knows how much worse it will get so how can he ever plan to retire? All the money in his pot come from what he has paid - If teachers and others who complain work out how much they have paid in over their career , including investment returns, I bet they would be surprised how little it would buy them on the openmarket specially if they wanted to retire at a relatively early age!

louschmoo Sat 19-Jan-13 09:47:01

I work in an industry which is primarily composed of small businesses. I have never worked anywhere which has offered any kind of pension sad. Legally they may have to but it's difficult if your HR Manager is also your line manager and the owner of the company. As someone said earlier it's not a race to the bottom. But if I'm going to get irate about pension rules then my concern is the people who have no provision at all from their employers- because they work in industries which have no union representation; because they are self-employed and doing agency work 'as industry standard' rather than by choice; and because it is difficult to be the 'lone voice' pushing for benefits when no one else in your company raises their head above the parapet.
I do sympathise with people for whom the goalposts have changed. But there are many many people working in this country who will never be entitled to anything like a pension scheme where employers contribute so generously as in the public sector or very large private sector businesses.

Adversecamber Sat 19-Jan-13 09:57:41

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sabriel Sat 19-Jan-13 10:13:02

YANBU. I started work at 16 and have always worked apart from 4.5 years at home when my DC1 was born. The calculation for a full state pension was always 44 years of NIC for a man and 39 years for a woman, which I was well on track for. It would have been fairer to have started to change the rules for those who didn't start their working life until 21/22 instead of retrospectively moving the goalposts for people in their late 40s/50s.

My dad was a civil servant and luckily turned 60 at the time when he was forced to retire at 60. He died at 62. I have known 4 colleagues die (2 of those *at work*) aged late 50s/early 60s.

My DH works nights in a manual job. He is already old at 51. There is no way he will be able to continue to 67, and he has no pension.

marriedinwhite Sat 19-Jan-13 10:21:23

I worked from 21 to about 35 and made contributions as high as possible to private pension schemes from the age of 24. Those schemes have racked up a pension worth about £15k I think when the time comes - for me about 12 years.

I had 8 years off with the DC and went back to work in the public sector in 2003 - if I carry on that should provide about another £10-£15k I think.

On top of that I will have my state pension.

I have always worked hard and have always contributed the maximum possible into a pension. I understand that a pensions time bomb has been ticking and that there is a whole population to be supported - that is the ultimate purpose of the welfare state.

What has made the situation far far worse is that for years successive governments have refused to introduct compulsory pension contributions for all workers. That should, in my opinion, have happened 20 years ago. I know many many people who didn't contribute and work with many now who forego a 14% government contribution because they don't want put any of their own money in - and I'm talking about young people in their 20s with no commitments who just can't see the need and would rather have the money in their pockets to spend on lifestyle. I think that's the national scandal.

echt Sat 19-Jan-13 10:38:04

marriedinwhite, while you appear to be congratulating yourself on your foresight and hard work, you would be better pointing your finger at corporations who took pension holidays to lower their tax bills.

Just Google: corporations and pension holidays, and compare the millions they pissed away, and allowed by government.

The present day analogy would be the current proposal that private companies running NHS provision should have tax breaks... because the private sector is independent...and therefore is deserving, indeed NEEDS government support.

Hang on...

I do agree that 'retirement' will not happen the way it is currently happening as that has only been for one generation - the extraordinarily lucky elderly now.

It's fine if you can be in good health and retire at 68/70 and have reasonable health for ten years. It's not fine if you do the societally desirable thing and drop dead at 72.

If dh as a teacher retires at 70 and drops dead at 72 I will be properly fucked as all that pension money (which we're currently paying into as a family) disappears.

That pension contribution is also our second biggest expense and is 80 quid extra a month than this time last year.

What we really need is plenty of good, flexible part time work for the elderly to do so that they can supplement their state pension.

PrettyKitty1986 Sat 19-Jan-13 10:48:57

I think yabu to think you're hard done by because the goalposts have moved in regards to pensions. I work in the private sector for a multinational company and my job is now completely different to when I chose it 8 years ago. My job responsibilities, annual pay rise and bonus expectations, pension arrangements, working hours etc have completely changed since I joined. And there's nothing I can do about it because of a clause in my contract stating 'reasonable changes can be made'. Why is the public sector any different?

Tailtwister Sat 19-Jan-13 10:54:21

I can understand why you're annoyed OP, I would be too. We're all taking a hit though in some way or another. Just the way it is I'm afraid!

atacareercrossroads Sat 19-Jan-13 11:34:36

Agree 100% kitty

NumericalMum Sat 19-Jan-13 11:43:23

Why do you all become teachers then? Surely you knew what you were getting yourselves in for?

How to teachers in other countries cope where they haven't got the glorious state cash cow to pay them a lovely pension forever? I guess they cope by working a hell of a lot harder than UK teachers longer because they have no choice!

I am not young (but thanks for the compliment) and I am not naive. I have had my pension reduced considerably working for a multi-national and I can moan and scream as much as I like but I will be told to go and find another job if I am to happy.

And whilst I get teachers have marking to do at weekends etc who else in the world with such a great pension, so much time off etc gets to clock off work and sit with their feet up all evening and weekend?

NumericalMum Sat 19-Jan-13 11:46:37

Lauries would you not get a spousal pension? If not have you made allowance for this? Chances are you will outlive your husband statistically speaking!

Euphemia Sat 19-Jan-13 12:19:20

NumericalMum How do you figure that teachers in other countries work a lot harder than in the UK?

KatieScarlett2833 Sat 19-Jan-13 12:32:37

I'm 27 years into my pension scheme. Up till recently I could have retired in 13 years time. Now I will have to work another 24 years to qualify. I will be 68 and will have been working for 52 years......confused

TheNebulousBoojum Sat 19-Jan-13 12:44:50

'Why do you all become teachers then? Surely you knew what you were getting yourselves in for?'

Yes, I did in 1984. Things changed a bit and that is what the thread is about.
I think altering things for the future is reasonable, but I was part of the fight to prevent the changes being applied retrospectively.

LeeCoakley Sat 19-Jan-13 13:09:23

Us in our mid/late 50s I would imagine are feeling the moving goalposts the most at the moment. Too late to up our contributions to anything meaningful. Apparently, (if it was allowed) I could contribute my whole public sector salary of £9,000 pa for the next 11 years and then get a pension of £4,000 at 67!

Also are we ALL living longer? Manual workers, high stress workers etc. We all have the same state retirement age due to living longer but I wondered if that was true of a complete cross-section of jobs.

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