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to feel that the Tories like foreign children more than British ones?

(106 Posts)
SindyW Thu 10-Jan-13 09:55:10

They pay child benefit to Polish children who have never even been to Britain. They support children in the third world by maintaining the full value of the overseas aid budget, whilst at the same time saying they can't afford to raise income support, working tax credits or child tax credits in line with inflation. They will raise support for overseas children in line with inflation but not support for British children. British students have seen a 300% increase in their university tuition fees but overseas students have had a much smaller rise (in line with inflation). It seems, to me, that David Cameron and Ian Duncan Smith have it in for British children and young people or am I being unreasonable?

fluffyraggies Thu 10-Jan-13 10:57:20

X post nilby.

showtunesgirl Thu 10-Jan-13 10:57:22

The OP is not racist but xenophobic if she's singling out Polish people. Polish people make up a nation, NOT a race.

<strolls off to Pedants' Corner>

MiniTheMinx Thu 10-Jan-13 10:59:08

to the right of Karl Marx is just evil indeed they are!

PolkadotCircus Thu 10-Jan-13 10:59:15

Vag err no she raised the question because said children aren't even here,entirely valid to question the fairness.

Also if European children with a single parent earning 50-60 k are still getting CB when UK parents aren't then sorry the gov could actually make it the same for everybody pretty much like they could make it the same for families on a combined income of 50-60k but that's a whole other thread.

It's perfectly reasonable to question something that isn't fair and not that difficult to iron out.

RedToothbrush Thu 10-Jan-13 10:59:28

Would the OP care to comment on the recent cracking down on student visas and how a lot of universities have warned the government that restrictions will lead to them having funding problems and thus not be able to compete on a world level with other international institutions?

They pay larger fees than British students if they are not from the EU (EU students pay the same as locals --this could potentially cripple Scottish universities in time--). This would also affect the quality of education available in the UK to British students in this country.

LoopsInHoops Thu 10-Jan-13 11:00:24

Yes, I did consider that.

NumericalMum Thu 10-Jan-13 11:05:07

OP I think I have been treated unfairly. I have one DC that I can afford and not 5 that I can't. I want the same amount of support you are receiving as otherwise it isn't at all fair, just because you don't use contraception.

DreamingOfTheMaldives Thu 10-Jan-13 11:05:14

She thinks tax paying parents should not be able to claim CB because they children are Foreign. No, she doesn't. She thinks they should not be allowed to claim CB if their children are not living in the UK.

She thinks that Foreign aid is a waste of time, and not because it may not actually reach those is meant to help, but because benefits in this country will not be rising by more than 1%. No, she thinks that the foreign aid budget should not be maintained at the same level when the country claims not to be able to afford to maintain benefits at the same level.

Anyone that spends this much time and effort worrying about foreigners really has a problem. I don't believe she is really 'worrying about foreigners' - she is having an opinion on matters which affect everyone.

You may not agree with her opinion and maybe she doesn't have a very good understanding of the matters on which she is commenting but to call her racist (or thick nilbyname) for those opinions is really not on.

dreamingbohemian Thu 10-Jan-13 11:06:39

Why is it, in conversations like these, people always get so arsey about the Polish?

Everyone knows it's the Moldovakians who are the real problem.

SindyW Thu 10-Jan-13 11:06:47

Thank you all for helping me with my poor reasoning. I don't have it in for Polish people (I like them, they are Catholic, like me and we share a somewhat common culture). I see that the consensus is that the coalition have it in for everybody apart from the bankers (who hopefully will give them a job one day). By the way I have always supported overseas aid. I still feel unfairly treated but now I understand that EU rules have protected EU nationals and we have no option but to pay child benefit to EU nationals working in the UK even if their children don't live here. I suppose we all have to make cuts so that the status quo is maintained.
At the mo I'm doing a OU course on international trade so your views are really interesting. Thanks to everybody who replied.

threesocksmorgan Thu 10-Jan-13 11:08:59

so if we are a wealthy country and can afford to send money abroad to help others.
why are the government closing day centres/respite places. cutting benefits for disabled people and sick people?

showtunesgirl Thu 10-Jan-13 11:09:33

OP, how is it you're doing a course on International Trade but don't know general international policies and politics? confused

SindyW Thu 10-Jan-13 11:12:29

showtunesgirl - I'm still learning lol. I think my Marxists tendencies are getting in the way. Sorry if I offended anybody.

strumpetpumpkin Thu 10-Jan-13 11:13:18

what an incredibly stupid point of view.

The tories hate all children not at eton. Everybody knows that.

LoopsInHoops Thu 10-Jan-13 11:13:56

"I don't have it in for Polish people (I like them, they are Catholic, like me"

Really? All of them? hmm

AutumnMadness Thu 10-Jan-13 11:15:39

One thing I always like MN for is reasonably civilised way people treated each other. No matter how much you may despite the views of the posters, the accusations of bigotry and lack of intelligence are not helpful and destroy the spirit of open debate. And there has been a lot of it this morning. Here and on the Northern Ireland flag thread. Come on people, be nice!

ScarletLady02 Thu 10-Jan-13 11:16:59

LoopInHoops I was just about to say pretty much the same thing. I know a few Polish people and none of them are Catholic....

ScarletLady02 Thu 10-Jan-13 11:17:40

I mean none of the people I know.....not NONE of all the Polish people (if that sentence even makes grammatical sense grin ).

RedToothbrush Thu 10-Jan-13 11:18:28

BTW, we are also allowed to go elsewhere in Europe to university and are entitled to free tuition or very cheap tuition as a result in some countries (Finland would be one, off the top of my head that has fees which are pretty much token). Many courses are taught in english not the native language too.

British students tend not to choose this option because of the worry of language (which many EU nationals don't worry about as they have English as such a strong second language), but also because many of our universities are so highly rated internationally in comparison with other EU countries. We are privileged in this respect. It basically means that university fees can not just be looked as something that is just about British citizens as its a global market. In order to protect out future, we need to take into consideration these factors.

IThinkOfHappyWhenIThinkOfYou Thu 10-Jan-13 11:19:09

OP, what do you think about the 9 million quid the government has just given to Cafod?

Do you seriously think that Cafod should stop its work in Haiti, congo, syria etc because its 'unfair' that people on the bones of their arse, who have literally lost everything should not be given a hand up. Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the prisoners. Do you think the gospel writers missed out 'but only if they are British nationals' off the end of that sentence?

dreamingbohemian Thu 10-Jan-13 11:22:28

OP, if I can give you some advice going forward with your studies -- any time you come across a policy or situation that seems crazy (as you definitely will in international trade!) don't just stop with your emotional reaction to it (i.e., this is crazy/stupid/unfair). Instead ask the obvious question: why are people putting this policy in place, if it's so crazy/stupid/unfair? That will lead you to answers similar to the ones given here (e.g., Brussels makes us).

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if you're going to study a subject then you need more than an opinion, you need facts and informed judgment.

dreamingbohemian Thu 10-Jan-13 11:25:27

Exactly, RedToothbrush

I just realised I didn't clarify in my earlier post that the whole point of going to other countries for university is that they often cost very, very little.

Grapesoda Thu 10-Jan-13 11:25:30

I think the op is getting a hard time. Her questions are not unreasonable. Btw, we are not a rich country anymore. Our grandchildren and beyond will be paying for the debts we've built up over the years. Poverty is a relative issue. It is not necessarily the case that all the money in the world should be even,y shared out so everyone has a tiny piece. There are many families and individuals in need in the UK who are suffering and will continue to suffer financially due to ongoing spending cuts. I don't believe it's bigoted or racist to raise the issue of spending overseas and it sounds a little hysterical to immediately jump in with that assumption. Sensible discussion is what's required surely.

Mumsyblouse Thu 10-Jan-13 11:25:52

Sindy, as others have said, perhaps you have misunderstood the tuition fees situation. If you are a UK student, your fees are not paid until years after you have done the course, and only if you are earning above a certain amount. So effectively you get a loan.

Overseas students do not get a loan, and they pay full fees. A Chinese undergraduate in our university is paying £9,000 a year upfront, plus bring probably about £10-15,000 into the local economy (unable to live at home). Your child, however, is paying NOTHING upfront and has the choice of living at home and attending the local university.

You are making yourself look foolish by trying to make out international students have a better deal.

Scrazy Thu 10-Jan-13 11:27:43

WRT tuition fees. Am I right in thinking that some of the non EU and EU fees are paid for by their own governments? Whereas ours won't help finance overseas courses, so limiting the students who can take advantage of them. I expect every country has it's own rules and it might be to do with the course not being offered via their own education system.

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