To not visit my parents again for the next five years or so? (warning - long and despondant!)

[LiegeAndLief]

Background: My parents live overseas. The flights for all of us to get there are extremely expensive, so not really worth going for less than 10 - 14 days. We haven't been to visit them for nearly three years, although they have been over here quite a few times and I met them with the kids recently at their holiday house, which is also in another country but much closer and cheaper.

I've been looking at flights to go and see them at Easter, but am having serious doubts due to the somewhat strained relationship between my dad and 6yo ds. It basically boils down to my dad having much higher (and in my opinion fairly unrealistic) expectations of ds's behaviour than me and dh, which has got worse as ds has got older and therefore more "responsible" for his actions, but they have always wound each other up terribly.

My dad finds all children and normal childish behaviour incredibly irritating, although he seemed to manage to put up with me and my brother ok (he did work long hours though and was often away for long periods of time). He seems incapable of defusing any kind of normal child-related situation (say ds wants a particular tshirt that is in the wash - instead of a quick distraction he'll pounce on it and really wind ds up about it and then get cross because ds is shouting) and uses things like sarcasm in such a way that ds completely misunderstands him and gets upset.

Ds is definitely no angel but I have tried very hard to see this from all points of view and I really don't think I have my head in the sand about his general behaviour - I wouldn't describe him as "spirited"! . He can sit and and eat nicely in restaurants, sit quietly through things like church services, is often kind to his little sister and helpful to me. He can be very loud and bouncy (ok this is quite often!), sometimes whingy and occasionally shouts and is rude, when he gets told off and usually sanctioned in some way after a warning, but surely every 6yo is like this sometimes?

I found the last two visits quite stressful, and end up trying incredibly hard to control ds's behaviour to an extent to which I wouldn't normally go, then feel huge implied criticism of my lovely ds and my own parenting every time my dad looks irritated. I spoke to my mum today and she said that dad had tried very hard not to wind ds up this time - I couldn't tell . I don't want to spend £2,000 on two weeks of annoying my dad (who I love, and is actually a very nice bloke once you remove any children from the equation!), ds being upset and me and dh (and my mum) all being constantly tense. Should I just accept that we will see my parents even less often and not subject us all to this until ds is older? I can't see any way round it

[expatinscotland]

I wouldn't bother going.

[HumphreyCobbler]

I wouldn't go either

I can't stand it when people are sarcastic to small children

[sameoldlovebunny]

don't go. if your dad asks why, tell him. i'm not being cruel (well, not very) but your dad can't change unless he knows he needs to. and you can't have your son upset. he's small. as you say, a few years will make all the difference.

[MousyMouse]

yanbu
you can get a lovely relaxing holiday and a few extra spa treatments (if that is your kind of thing) for this money.
or of you decide to go, can you stay somewhere else and only do outings with your parents?

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

Would it be possible to go but not stay with them to give them some "space" from the children. That way you can leave if your Dad and your DS are not getting on.

[mum382013]

he's the adult and should act like it, so dont bother to visit until he does.

[Catsdontcare]

I wouldn't go, it's not fair on your ds to spend two weeks feeling bullied and disliked by his grandad.

[floweryblue]

If you would like to visit your parents, is there any chance you could go on your own? They can see your children and DP when they are over here.

[BabsAndTheRu]

That is really awkward, I can tell by your post you love your dad very much but I wouldn't go. Your priority is to your wee boy. Why take him somewhere to let an adult wind him up and upset him and pay 2 grand for this to happen.Maybe it will improve if your dad knows why you are not going. He is the adult here and needs to learn to adapt his behaviour and follow your lead when it comes to discipline. My mum can be a bit like that at times but you have to step in and nip it in the bud, which is what my sister, brother and I have had to do with all our kids. She doesn't mean any harm but just can't help herself. She does stop however the minute you say anything.

[wilkos]

Don't go. And when you call up your parents and tell them why, point out that if you father wants his DGS to hate him for the rest of his life he is going the right way about it.

That might make him think a bit.

[LiegeAndLief]

Thanks for all the responses. Actually it was very cathartic to get all that out! We couldn't really stay anywhere else as we can barely afford the flights, and it probably wouldn't make that much difference as my parents have a huge house and my dad would be at work anyway (although home evenings and weekends). It would also be very difficult to go on my own as dh's job is such that I do all school pick ups/drop offs etc so would involve huge logistics, and dc would be distraught that I was going to see grandparents and not them (although dh would probably be fairly happy!).

Ironically ds loves his grandad, is always desperate to talk at to him and jump on him, although I can remember being desperate for his attention / approval as a child too so maybe that is actually a consequence of his behaviour rather than in spite of it!

I do often feel like I am dealing with a couple of 6yos who don't get on very well rather than a child and an adult, which really pisses me off at times - I don't understand why my dad can't just be the adult and rise above.

[VivaLeBeaver]

Did you post some months ago about your last visit to your parents? Rings a bell and I remember the visit sounded awful.

[LiegeAndLief]

Without meaning to drip feed, I know that when my cousins were young children (a long time ago!) my dad purposefully but surrepticiously (sp?) hurt two of them on separate occasions when they were failing to live up to his standards of behaviour. Their parents never knew but my mum told me much later. I am 99% sure he would never do anything like this to ds but it's in the back of my mind.

This is all so difficult because he's my dad and I love him and I loved him as a child, I don't ever remember him being horrible or distant with us. Although my mum tells me we were impeccably behaved... But ultimately I love ds more. And seeing my dad disapproving of ds brings out all these conflicting emotions in that I still have this need from childhood for him to approve of me (and therefore ds), but I am furious with him for upsetting ds.

[LiegeAndLief]

Viva I don't think so, although I have definitely complained about my MIL in the past - she's a whole other thread!

[BelleoftheFall]

Wow.

Sorry, but after that fact I'd be even less inclined to go and visit him. Even if it was long ago, deliberately hurting your cousins on the sly when they weren't behaving in the way he wanted sounds really bad. The way you phrase it makes it sound like he set it up so he could get away with it.

I wouldn't go. It doesn't sound good for your son but it also sounds very bad for you. If it leaves you with a lot of emotional fall out to deal with after each visit then invest that money in a pleasant holiday elsewhere- your son can be a normal 6 year old and you can have peace of mind.

[LiegeAndLief]

I think it was more of a loss of temper thing Belle but he's definitely clever enough to have done it when no one was looking. My mum told me when I was a teenager and I didn't think much of it at the time but since having my own dc it has horrified me. Especially as one of the cousins was the ds of his own sister. If my db did something like that to either of my dc, no matter how terribly they were behaving, I'd... well actually I just can't imagine him doing it, so have no idea how I'd react, but it wouldn't be in a good way.

[julieann42]

My dad used to be quite intolerant of my son and I would have to mange our visits so he couldn't upset my son with his comments...it's better now my son is older! I used to limit our stays to only one night but I know that's not possible for you. I think things will improve but till then limit your time..

[StuntGirl]

You know your dad deliberately hurt another child yet you're still considering going?

I'd tell him not a chance.

[lisianthus]

No. Absolutely not. HELL no. He winds children up, is sarcastic and unpleasant with the inevitable results and has been known to secretly hurt children? Are you kidding me? Not only would I not be spending precious family funds so your DS can be made unhappy by this guy, I wouldn't be allowing unsupervised access to your DS until he is much older due to the hurting of children.

It is WORSE because your DS loves him. It hurts him more than if a stranger did it to him. What sort of messages about messed-up family dynamics is this giving your DS? It's hard to see it like this because he is your father, but take a step back and read your posts as if someone else wrote them.

[DerbyNottsLeicsNightNanny]

My son is only 3 but can sometimes be very 'naughty'. My dad doesn't cope well at all with this and it makes me & my mum very tense (my DH doesn't usually notice but he did once over Xmas). We live near to my parents so see them regularly but got short periods. I'd love to go abroad with them but it will probably never happen because of my dad. I love dad to bits but he is a very intolerant person and generates so much tension which is such a shame. In your position I wouldn't go.

[LiegeAndLief]

Thesecondcoming, that is exactly what half my brain is telling me. Although I hope my parents have more than a few years left, my dad isn't 60 yet! Actually I thought a lot more peopl would say what you did.

To be fair to ds, he doesn't have meltdowns over tshirts. I was just using that a an example to try and show that my dad doesn't respond to ds in the way that every other adult I know would, and that he often exacerbates any slight issue. He definitely shouldn't shout at people, and he would always be dealt with in some way for it, but occasionally he does, because he is not perfect. It's made worse by the fact that he sees them so infrequently that he gets very hyped up and overexcited, especially the last couple of times where he was in another country and then it was Christmas.

I do worry that it's ds's behaviour that is the problem here and tat I should be able to force him to be "good" all the time round my dad. I just don't know how to do it!

[3smellysocks]

Have you other children and how does gramps find them?

[holidaysarenice]

I think you need to probably work harder at the ds df relationship, for example you said you ds likes to jump/bounce over his dgf, can you explain to ds that he doesn't like this, is used to quieter things and provide some eg drawing materials for them both. With a quiet word to df to see if he'd meet you halfway on this.

They might enjoy this and find something to do that is just for them.