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(112 Posts)
LalyRawr Wed 09-Jan-13 19:26:38

I don't want to start an argument or be judges/seen as judging others, but I could really do with some advice.

My brother was Autistic. He had Fragile X syndrome and after being tested I also tested positive for it, but my 'symptoms' are much milder than his were due to the fact that I have a healthy X chromosome to balance out the 'bad' one.

Now my question is on the MMR. I know the study linking MMR to Autism has been discredited, but OH's Aunt is a Caffcas worker and has seen parents who swear blind their child was healthy and happy and literally changed over night after having the MMR.

I, like any parent, only want the best for my daughter. She is 10 months old so will need to have it in a couple of months and I am still unsure what would be best.

All NHS guidelines recommend the combined injection, but obviously they would do. But, once given, this isn't something that can be taken back if there is a problem.

But with the single vaccines, the NHS website states there is an ncteased risk of my daughter catching one of the diseases before she is immunised and they mentioned that all the clinics which offer the single vaccines are unlicensed, so obviously that has scared me!

I know this is long and I sound like a PFB mother (which I am!) but I just don't know what to do.

Help me please?

MrsTerryPratchett Wed 09-Jan-13 19:55:22

Very sorry for your loss Laly.

There are people who swear blind that all sorts of things are true. If you are interested in why and how bad we are at assessing evidence, read Ben Goldacre's book.

I worked for SS and worked with people with LD. I have seen one person who was vaccine damaged. Lots more damaged by diseases. None where the MMR caused damage. IMO vaccines, anesthetics and antibiotics are the best things about living today medically. We should be very grateful for them.

CloudsAndTrees Wed 09-Jan-13 19:55:56

I really feel for anyone making this decision now, you have my sympathy Laly.

Personally, we went for single vaccines, but this was back in the day when you could get all three vaccines. They were licensed vaccines and the consultant paediatrician who administered them was licensed too.

I think the government have a lot to answer for for making the mumps vaccine unavailable.

manicbmc Wed 09-Jan-13 20:00:50

My ds is severely autistic. I firmly believe he was autistic before anyone went anywhere near him with an immunisation. It's just that those things that crop up in ASD kids (the differences and nuances) tend to present at the same time as the MMR is given.

Pickles101 Wed 09-Jan-13 20:01:11

Single vaccines are not routinely given in the UK. They're not available on the NHS due to the risk that fewer children would receive all the necessary injections, increasing the levels of measles, mumps and rubella in the UK.

MamaBear17 Wed 09-Jan-13 20:02:10

I could have written your post. My brothers are both on the spectrum. My mother insists the MMR is to blame and will not be told otherwise. My youngest brother was very poorly after having the jab, as was my cousin who had received the MMR on the same day as my brother and at the same surgery. My cousin is severely autistic and my brother has a diagnosis of Aspergers. An OT friend I have at work is convinced that the drug companies paid the government off in order to have the link to autism discredited. In France they offer children the immunisations separately because they do not believe the MMR is the best option (the NHS is very clever in its wording when discussing the MMR: "No country that offers the MMR recommends having the injections separately" - clever, because it makes you think that all countries support the MMR, when infact some simply do not offer it.)
Having said all of that, when I did my research into the separate injections I discovered that there is no injection for mumps. Hubby and I discussed it and he felt very strongly that he wanted dd vaccinated against all of the diseases and not just most of them. In the end, I waited until she was 15 months before allowing her to have the MMR. I did this on the advice of my OT friend who told me that it shouldn't be offered before 15 months (based on her medical background and personal opinion - but I trust and value her opinion so decided to follow her advice.) I have also decided not to allow my dd to have the second MMR injection before she starts school. I have done my research and feel that it is un-necessary for her to have it twice. All of the above is my personal opinion, and the choice I have made for my child based on what I think is best. My only advice to you is that you do your research and make your decision based on what you think. It isnt easy, especially when other people throw their opinions into the ring. Good luck!

YorkshireDeb Wed 09-Jan-13 20:04:01

YANBU for worrying your daughter may be autistic, but YABU if you let this stop you from getting the vaccine for her. Autism is far more prevalent in boys than girls so your daughter is very unlikely to have it anyway. It is a sliding scale; a spectrum. Some people think we're all on the spectrum somewhere - we all have traits - but few people have enough to get a diagnosis & even less are severe (in a rain man sense). Personally I agree with all the posters that it can't be caused by MMR - but I think you know this; I think you're just scared. X

catgirl1976 Wed 09-Jan-13 20:08:16

The guy whose (whose now discredited) paper which started the MMR scare had a patent for the single mumps vaccine

The paper itself didn't even mention a link between MMR and Autism - he just dropped this into a conference with journalists (wonder why)

The BMA ruled that what he had done was not just bad science but fraud

He has been struck off

A Danish study has since been conducted of over 500,000 children, 82% of whom had had the MMR. It found no link to autism

Japan has withdrawn the combined vaccine but has found autism has continued to rise in children who have not had the MMR but single vaccines

The USA has conducted an exhaustive review of all avalliable data and found no link between MMR and autism

But YANBU to worry. That's what we do smile

Nuttyprofessor Wed 09-Jan-13 20:18:38

I had to make that decision for my DS . A friend of DH has an autistic son, the parents are sure the MMR was the cause.

I decided to do the single jabs as I felt all I had to do loose was the money. My GP recommended a private DR that was a personal friend of his.

Seabright Wed 09-Jan-13 20:19:32

Please have the MMR. My DP is deaf and has eyesight so poor his lens have to be made specially in Japan. All because he had measles.

Please, don't risk it.

BaresarkBunny Wed 09-Jan-13 20:22:20

I was very concerned about ds having the mmr and the (at the time) link with autism. My dm said to me that you can only do your best with the current medical advice.

So I decided to let ds have the injection. 10 months later ds was diagnosed with hfa.

However all the points that supported his diagnosis were there before he had the mmr. I believe he was born with asd and there is no link with the mmr.

HecatePropolos Wed 09-Jan-13 20:25:18

My children both have autism. My eldest was clearly autistic from birth. No eye contact, rigid when you held him, etc. It was as clear as a bell.

My youngest, born when my eldest was 15 months old, was as different again. Cuddly, interactive, interested, eye contact, smiley... and then he regressed. It was time to have the MMR. Looking back, it was like someone swept in under cover of darkness and swapped my child. It was as sudden and dramatic as that.


He didn't have the MMR.

Neither of them did.

It was at the time that the MMR-autism thing had hit the headlines and so we paid for the single vaccines instead.

I tell you this - if he had had the MMR there is no power on this earth that would have been able to convince me that it wasn't the cause. I would have been shouting it from the rooftops, I know I would.

I don't know. That's just my experience. I'm not an expert and one experience means bog all in the grand scheme of things.

Look into it. Find out about different types of autism, I can't remember who it was but someone on here was talking about different types of autism and different causes/triggers. It was very interesting, but I've lost the thread.

GailTheGoldfish Wed 09-Jan-13 20:25:34

Nuttyprofessor did your DS have all three singles - if so where did you get the mumps jab done as it is currently not available as a single?

EnjoyResponsibly Wed 09-Jan-13 20:27:04

I can tell you OP, having gone down the single jab route, there is no single vaccine globally for Mumps since the company in the US licenced to make it stopped.

Single jabs for rubella and measles are available, they cost about £250.

i didnt think all the singles were available at the moment.

My DS had singles but if that hadn't been an option then he would have had the MMR

EnjoyResponsibly Wed 09-Jan-13 20:33:37

DS had singles for measles and rubella in 2008/9. Mumps was already an issue at the time, but was then discontinued entirely. As a consequence DS had to have MMR at 4.5 before he went to school.

Fairyegg Wed 09-Jan-13 20:35:12

As I understand it the clinics are unlicensed because the government refuse to give them a licence. I'm pretty sure the single mumps vaccination is impossible to get in the uk now. Other options are delaying the mmr. Some parents don't give it until 2 years plus to ensure development is ok. Whatever you do, people will disagree with you and you May never be 100% happy with any decision you make, you can only go with whatever decision you are happiest with.

colleysmill Wed 09-Jan-13 20:56:41

There has been a confirmed case of mumps at ds's day nursery recently so it is still about (must admit I was surprised as hadn't heard of case for sometime)

CloudsAndTrees Wed 09-Jan-13 21:01:21

I just had a look on the internet for the paediatrician that did our single vaccines, his website lists all three single vaccines as available. It might be out of date though.

MrsTerryPratchett Wed 09-Jan-13 21:14:27

I understand that people think delaying is an option. I don't agree with this, except with medical advice (and that wouldn't be an OT, sorry MamaBear or a chiropractor or anyone else who isn't actually an expert). I have been advised to hold off DD's last set because she reacted quite badly to her previous set. If I hadn't been advised to do that DD would be having them on schedule. The reason is that for every set of people who delay, some children will fall ill. A very small percentage will get extremely sick like Seabright's child or die. Another small percentage may pass on these diseases to another person who can't have vaccines or has low immunity. Statistically, there are reasons that we have the schedule we do. More people get sick with single vaccines and with delayed vaccination.

Rollmops Wed 09-Jan-13 21:41:47

Have single Measles and Rubella. When your DC turns 4-5 ie. before they start school, give the MMR unless single Mumps is back on the market.
By that age, you'll only have to give 1 dose of MMR, booster is not needed. Child is older and his/her immune system is stronger.
This was recommended by a professor at the leading University who specialises in vaccinations.

EugenesAxe Wed 09-Jan-13 21:42:41

I can't help wondering if all the people that 'swear blind' it was the MMR are somehow ashamed of their child's autism and seeking something to blame, to avoid looking inwards.

On the other hand, I know enough people that are ruled by hokum and distrust all things medical - I have heard a few hmm 'it was definitely this that caused XYZ' statements and thought I would like to hear a second opinion/ the alternate view. In short, I think all these 'convinced' people's testimonials should be taken with a pinch of salt. Not everyone will be as open minded to the truth (ie. the signs were there pre MMR) as many of the posters on this thread are.

HappyMummyOfOne Wed 09-Jan-13 21:46:20

We went the single jabs route about 8 years ago, cost about £400 but worth it to us. The doctor was a regular GP who just held a private clinic once a fortnight to do purely these and chickenpox jabs.

Not planning anymore but would go this route again over the MMR but thats my personal choice and only you can decide for your child.

EnjoyResponsibly Wed 09-Jan-13 21:49:58

Rollmops, that's incorrect. You still have to have the booster. We dd exactly what you suggested with DS.

EnjoyResponsibly Wed 09-Jan-13 21:52:34

By booster I mean, he had the MMR then we had a follow up jab a few weeks later.

MamaBear17 Wed 09-Jan-13 21:53:40

I think the reason my mum insists the MMR was to blame for my brother is partly because he had a bad reaction, as did my cousin and they are both on the spectrum, and partly a need for there to be a reason for why my brother has Aspergers. I really feel for my mum, it has been a real struggle for her and my dad with both of my brothers. I think she feels very guilty. However, my mums opinion of the MMR didnt stop me from allowing my daughter to have it. I researched it and made the decision, along with my husband, based on what I felt comfortable with. It is hard to know what to think, especially when your child is your PFB. I think there is some good advice on here though and every mum has to make their own decision.

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