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not lack of jobs - lack of ambition!

(411 Posts)
eggs11 Wed 09-Jan-13 13:21:34

I know very, very little about politics, and if you can help me see this from a different perspective, please do!

A friend is a labour party member, and we recently had a row.I have a good friend (I like her for her personality, not for her life choices) who had a baby at 16 and is on benefits. She has a now 4 year old, starting school in September. She has a huge two bed flat in london (we would love to live where she does! but couldn't afford it), sky tv, the child has a nintendo ds, new clothes all the time, constant days out. I said it makes me angry that me and DP work (we also had a baby young) really really hard. Firstly, I had to go back after 9months, while she gets to sit on her bum until her kid is 5. Secondly, she gets free childcare! She had 2year old funding and 3 year old funding, while the £50 a day to put my 1year old in nursery makes it barely worth me working.

This is the point where we had a row. My labour friend said that it's not her fault that she's on benefits, there's no jobs to make it worth her working. However, if you spoke to my other friend, she has never even considered working. She said to me last week, when her daughter goes to full time school in sept, she has two options: 1) have another baby and get another 5years 6months, which she's planning on doing. 2)Wait until sept, then she has another 6months on job seekers to get pregnant. HOW IS THAT FAIR????? she isn't even looking after her daughter for the past two years, because she's in nursery. Why does this woman get to sit on her bum with free childcare? Why isn't she made to do voluntary work as a fully abled 22 year old with 10 gcse's, or at least made to go with her daughter to nursery and learn parenting skills, which is what I assume they think she lacks if her daughter gets so much funding!

I'm not saying that everyone on benefits/job seekers allowance isn't looking for work. I know how hard it was for DP to find work, it took months of hundreds of applications. I'm saying that while a life on benefits is so cushty and just relies on a baby every five years, no one has the incentive to work! labours answer was increase the working wage. I disagree, she's comfortable, why would she go out to work just for a few extra quid a week?

realcoalfire Wed 09-Jan-13 13:25:27

Maybe you would be happier with Tory friends?

realcoalfire Wed 09-Jan-13 13:26:27

..or even joining the Tory party.I think you would fit in very well.

BettySwollocksandaCrustyRack Wed 09-Jan-13 13:27:30

I wouldnt say life on benefits is cushty but i would imagine that for someone say like your friend - it would be very hard to get a job which would pay enough to cover what her outgoings are and that she can afford to take time off from when the holidays are on.

I totally blame the system - there should be massive incentives to get mums back to work - subsidised/free child care etc etc......

Realistically she is not going to want to go to work is she if she is going to be worse off.

eggs11 Wed 09-Jan-13 13:27:54

so you think you should get free childcare even if you're not working? surely she should have to do something? college? volunteering?

BettySwollocksandaCrustyRack Wed 09-Jan-13 13:28:58 childcare to get her out to work!

EastHollyDaleStreet Wed 09-Jan-13 13:30:55

I didn't know those not working got free childcare - that is wrong. I also believe that a lot of people are stuck in the benefit trap and don't want to be and a lot of people can't find jobs who want them, and are unfairly lumped together with others. This lady seems to think it's ok. I find that appalling.

BettySwollocksandaCrustyRack Wed 09-Jan-13 13:31:54

she doesnt get free childcare...her child is over 3 so she gets funded to attend pre-school just like the rest of us!

Dawndonna Wed 09-Jan-13 13:33:21

It's not really your business, is it.

DialsMavis Wed 09-Jan-13 13:34:30

If she had 2 year old funding then there must be some issue why it was given, I have read in here that the criteria is quite strict.

3 year old funding is 15 hour a week, so YABU for saying she doesn't look after her child.

HungryHippo89 Wed 09-Jan-13 13:34:48

YANBU - My aunty did this popped a kid out every now and then - 100% lived on benefits and the dads of these kids (5 kids - 5 dads) And i'm not being cynical - She told my mum after the 3rd that this is what she would do. Never worked a day in her life - It's jsut too easy!!

Also I have a friend again with 5 children - 3 different dads she gets more in benefits and CSA then what i get paid for being on mumsnet slogging my guts out for 40 hours a week. And she has said she will only go back to work when all children are well into primary school. Her DP is on a "low income" and he gets some kind of tax credits to bump up his wage i think his tax credits amount to about £14k a year something ridiculous like that he said it pretty much doubles his monthly wage. They live in a beautiful 5 bedroom house which is also paid for ... However this isn't her fault ... if i was in that posistion i wouldn't go back to work .. Totally the peoples fault who deceide how much people get on benefits... It is way too cushy for them!!!

CloudsAndTrees Wed 09-Jan-13 13:34:48

I have a cousin that made very similar life choices as your friend. She has had her second baby now that her oldest is in school. She has a DP, but he claims to still be living with his parents even though he pretty much lives with her in her three bed council house with garden.

I don't blame her for it, I blame her parents (my aunt and uncle) for letting her grow up to believe that this is acceptable, and the government for making it possible for her to do this.

She doesn't have much of a life, she spends most of her time hanging around the local shopping centre with her friends who are all doing exactly the same thing, so I can't see anything to envy her for. It's still wrong though.

I worry about what she will do when her dc have grown up, especially if they end up repeating the cycle. Her life really will be miserable then.

AmberLeaf Wed 09-Jan-13 13:35:02

Free childcare?

Do you mean a full day nursery place?

She'll be on about £125 per week then housing benefits, but £125 a week in cash, she sounds really good at budgeting if she manages all those days out and new clothes!

Im impressed she manages bumsitting all day and 'constant' days out too.

coppertop Wed 09-Jan-13 13:37:16

The "childcare" is a pre-school place for 15hrs a week, so the mother is hardly 'sitting on her bum with free childcare'. It's for the benefit of the child.

Only some people will qualify for the 2yr funding but every child has 3yr funding, regardless of the employment status of their parents.

If you really believe it's such a fantastic lifestyle, try it for yourself.

Bogeyface Wed 09-Jan-13 13:37:44

Wont someone please think of the goat?

CloudsAndTrees Wed 09-Jan-13 13:38:11

I didn't know those not working got free childcare

It's not free childcare, it's free nursery education, there's a difference. The aim is not to give the parents childcare, it's to give the children access to education that they might not be receiving at home, because research has shown that it give children better outcomes by the time they leave school. It's for the child's benefit, not the parents.

eggs11 Wed 09-Jan-13 13:38:38

I don't know how much she gets. But she gets a lot! You can't really say how much she gets amber because you don't know how much she's entitled to without assessing her individually.

eggs11 Wed 09-Jan-13 13:39:44

Nursery education - still not being looked after by the parents though. Why don't parents have to go with them and learn about ways to help their kids learn? rather than giving them 15hours a week to sit in wetherspoons (which is what she does soemtimes)

BigShinyBaubles Wed 09-Jan-13 13:40:51

YANBU op. I know a few women who got pregnant so they didnt loose their 'easy life'- their exact words not mine.

BettySwollocksandaCrustyRack Wed 09-Jan-13 13:41:53

Nursery education - still not being looked after by the parents though

WTF are you on about? Every child is entitled to attend nursery...god, bitter much?

Why don't you kick out your DH, put yourself at the mercy of the government, walk in her shoes for a bit and then see how you feel about it.

Good friend? Christ, I think not!

AmberLeaf Wed 09-Jan-13 13:42:06

eggs I actually can say how much she gets!

The government set a limit on what they feel a family in those circumstances can live on, it is the minimum amount that they decide.

Everyone single person in her circumstances will get the same, the only thing that will vary is housing benefits as that will depend on what her rent is.

eggs11 Wed 09-Jan-13 13:43:18

was fully expecting to get flamed! Glad some agree. smile

I also think realcoalfire just because you don't support labour, doesn't make you a tory either. I already said i don't know much about politics.

coppertop Wed 09-Jan-13 13:43:22

"Nursery education - still not being looked after by the parents though. Why don't parents have to go with them and learn about ways to help their kids learn?"

What a wonderful idea. 30 children, up to 60 parents, and the nursery staff all in one place every day. I'm sure that would be extremely educational for all concerned.

Maybe they could continue the same system in schools too.

CloudsAndTrees Wed 09-Jan-13 13:44:18

In particularly deprived areas, parents are expected to have more involvement in their child's nursery education. The nurseries will call parents in to look over what is being learned on a regular basis, in the hope of getting the parents engaged with their children's education so that hopefully, the cycle doesn't repeat itself.

I completely agree with you that life is made far too easy for people just because they have had a child they have no way of supporting. It's wrong, and this is exactly why I believe child tax credits should be scrapped and why child benefit should be capped to two children. Allowing people to live this kind of life isn't doing them or anyone else any favours.

cory Wed 09-Jan-13 13:44:27

I think Amber might have a fair idea that the OPs "friend" does not get full funded childcare because there is no such provision under current rules. The child is getting the same founded nursery places as all of you who had children in recent years will have been getting. Those of us who had children earlier had to pay for all nursery education: you bunch of useless lay-abouts! grin

The only difference is that the OPs child got it from 2yo- which hardly justifies the OPs moaning about what she has to pay for her 1yo.

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