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To "grass up" this childminder to ofsted?

(134 Posts)
Bluemonkeyspots Tue 08-Jan-13 11:55:14

Now i know the general mumsnet opinion is to mind your own business but please hear me out first, then you can tell me to mind my own business if you want ;)

Friend has started using one of her friends for childminding, she has her 2dc during the week, she has also recommended cm friend to another friend and her 1dc will be starting soon.

Cm has 3dc of her own and also watches 2dc full time for another parent.

That will be 8dc overall and 5 off them
are preschoolers.

When I asked about ratios friend said she knew cm did not have a variation for ratios but her and her friend were happy enough to carry on with the arrangment and the other mum who user the cm full time will be none the wiser as she will drop off before the other mindees arrive and pick up after they have gone home.

My problem with this is that i am a mum who uses childcare and i would be really angry if this happened to me, I don't know this mum at all but she is paying the same rate as other parents do but her dc will get much less attention and I'm also not sure that cm's insurance will be valid (not to mention car sears etc)

What would you do?

AlexanderS Tue 08-Jan-13 12:38:40

Just report it and let Ofsted look into it/establish the facts. You won't have to give your name. If she's doing nothing wrong then she has nothing to worry about.

"If none of the children are yours then its really none of your concern", nokidshere? The welfare of children is everybody's concern, surely? It's attitudes like that that lead to tragedies like the Victoria Climbe case.

nokidshere Tue 08-Jan-13 12:42:41

But the OP doesn't know anyone involved, her friend is using the minder and she is simply making assumptions. If she or anyone else has seen 8 children piling into a 6 seater, or a minder looking after 8 under 5's or similar then fair enough, definitly report - but not just based on an assumption.

If she was really concerned she would ask her friend the exact details of the children being minded and how many were in the car before reporting.

Reporting someone without facts (even second hand ones) to back it up is just malicious.

PaellaUmbrella Tue 08-Jan-13 12:43:09

If you're absolutely certain of the facts, then I'd report her.

MrsMelons Tue 08-Jan-13 12:44:28

Safeguarding is EVERYONE's responsibility!

Some outrageous comments on here!

BlingBubbles Tue 08-Jan-13 12:46:02

Is she a registered cm? If she is when ofsted come and inspect they will see that there are too many children and she will be shut down or told to get rid of some of the mindees.

Twinklestarstwinklestars Tue 08-Jan-13 12:46:56

Even if she granted her own variation she should consult with parents and have proof she has. I've seen a few posts from childminders thinking they can have 6 preschoolers now, maybe she's got confused?! Is her husband registered too and that's how she's getting numbers?

I think I would report to be on the safe side.

AlexanderS Tue 08-Jan-13 12:47:23

It's not malicious nokidshere. Ofsted will look into it and if they find she's done nothing wrong that'll be the end of it. No harm done.

BlingBubbles Tue 08-Jan-13 12:47:40

Oh and to add I would find out the facts and report it, as someone said above safeguarding children is everyone's business!

Mrskbpw Tue 08-Jan-13 12:49:37

If you've got her Ofsted registration number you can look her up online and it will say how many children she's registered for. I'm registered for 3 under-5s, but as my own son is two, I'm only allowed an additional 2 children. It says this on my registration.

I don't think reporting her is malicious. If she's not doing it, then there's nothing for Ofsted to 'find out' is there?

hoodoo12345 Tue 08-Jan-13 12:50:13

You should definitely report it and let Ofsted decide.

AlexanderS Tue 08-Jan-13 12:50:21

She won't be "suspended whilst Ofsted investigate", they'll make an unnounced visit.

AlexanderS Tue 08-Jan-13 12:51:16

Sorry, unannounced visit.

breatheslowly Tue 08-Jan-13 12:54:29

Will the CM be driving 8 DC in a 7 seater car (i.e. without seats for 2 DC)? if this is the case then there is no "but she is a careful driver" about it. Children not properly restrained in cars die.

Twinklestarstwinklestars Tue 08-Jan-13 12:58:19

It may not say numbers on the ofsted website cos they're removing all the conditions on the new certificates.

nokidshere Tue 08-Jan-13 13:05:33

But she doesnt know what she is reporting?

Does the OP really think her friend would let a cm transport her own children in a car with no restraints? Or even in a car when any child is not restrained? Surely it wouldn't be hard for her to find out the real facts from her friend before doing anything else?

Aside from the car (which is obviously a criminal offence and should be reported) the rest of it is woolly at best. How many children does she have at one time, how old are they, are some in school, does she have an assistant - there are so many factors that depend now on the individual childminders circumstances.

My own certificate said "6 children under 8, no more of whom can be under 5 and of those 5 only one could be under 1"

My new certificate that arrived on Friday says "can care for children in accordance with EYFS guidelines"

nokidshere Tue 08-Jan-13 13:08:18

and how come the friend who is using the childminder isn't reporting her? Is she happy to have her childrens safety put at risk?

RyleDup Tue 08-Jan-13 13:13:47

I would probably contact ofsted with my concerns, as I would be worried her insuance wouldn't be valid if she is going over her numbers. If it turns out shes done nothing wrong, well theres not a problem is there.

hammyimo Tue 08-Jan-13 13:14:27

I think it's up to those using her services to complain if there are issues. It's up to them to check out their childminder's credentials/references. I doubt they'd leave their dc there if they thought it unsafe.

Don't really see why you would want to get involved with this.

DoodlesNoodles Tue 08-Jan-13 13:15:53

I would send an email to ofsted give them the facts, and let them decide whether or not to do anything.

OnwardBound Tue 08-Jan-13 13:16:56

If I had concerns I would query this arrangement with Ofsted and report if deemed necessary.

As so many of already said, child protection is EVERYONE'S issue.

If I was the parent of the original child i would be beyond angry if I discovered that my childminder was taking above the allowed number of mindees. The rules are there for the reason of the children's health, safety and best interests.

If Ofsted investigate and discover nothing untoward than no harm done. The childminder may be a little disconcerted by the investigation but as a professional person caring for vulnerable children must accept this safeguarding as part of their role [as nurses, doctors, teachers, etc also do].

However if Ofsted discover some discrepancy they will decide how to act.

And you will have done your civic duty OP!

FunnysInLaJardin Tue 08-Jan-13 13:20:36

I would be furious if this happened to me. DS2 is with a CM and I would hate to think of him being one of 5 children. I would report her on an anonymous basis

other mum who user the cm full time will be none the wiser as she will drop off before the other mindees arrive and pick up after they have gone home

^^ This is precisely why I think you should report it. I am also a parent who uses childcare (not a cm admittedly) but I would want to know if my children were being put at risk by someone's greed.

It may be that the cm's own children are above the limit and aren't counted. If so, the cm will be cleared by Ofsted and that's that. I couldn't in all conscience let something like this slide though, just in case.

Safeguarding is EVERYONE's responsibility! I wholeheartedly agree.

chocoluvva Tue 08-Jan-13 13:22:40

"the other mum who uses the cm will be none the wiser" shock.

Bluemonkeyspots Tue 08-Jan-13 13:22:46

Nokid, my friend is fine with this arrangement, she feels it's safe regarding the car as it's only a mile each way.

I agree it's up to them who use her service to complain but like I said in the op my concern is the parent who knows nothing about it.

I do know the childminder, i know she is only newly registered. Friend has confirmed that she will be over her ratios but is ok with this.

Childminder had said to friend that the car won't be a problem as like most large cars cm's has tinted windows in the back so nobody can see how many dc are in it.

Friend is fine with all this and that is up to her but it's the parent that knows nothing I was asking about.

My dc go to a nursery (one of the biggest reasons for this is I would not trust someone else driving them about, I would be a nervous wreck at work) but if my nursery were breaking ratio rules I would want to know.

Perhaps this parent will be like my friend and not care about ratios/car seats in which case if i did phone ofsted 1 person would be out a job and three parents would have no childcare confused

MrsMelons Tue 08-Jan-13 13:27:05

I think it is completely irrelevant whether the parents are ok with it or not!

You have every right to be concerned, it sounds more awful the more you write about it.

It is such a shame as there are so many amazing childminders out there but these stories are scary!

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