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To think my ds dies not need a 'bloody good hiding'

(179 Posts)
mamasmissionimpossible Sat 05-Jan-13 21:24:04

So I'm staying at parents as we are having our home redecorated before a move.

My ds is 7. He came home from a party today and was being aggressive (hiting the walls)and calling me names. my parents overhear all this.

I want to discipline without smacking as I just don't see it as a useful method if discipline. My father doesn't agree and says if ds did this behaviour with him in charge he would give him ' a bloody good hiding'. I feel so upset he could do that and know it wouldn't work long term. Df thinks he will be a delinquent teen with the behaviour he us showing.

After ds calmed down. He apologised to me (without prompting) and I explained why his behaviour was unacceptable.

Just looking for reassurance from mn that I don't need to use physical discipline to get him to behave.

I found out after the event that he hadn't had any tea at the party, which often has a negative effect on his behaviour.

AgentProvocateur Sat 05-Jan-13 23:48:44

I don't smack, but I can see where your dad's coming from - he was hitting the walls and calling you names. That's really bad behaviour, and from your dad's reaction it doesn't sound like its the first time your son's been out of order in their house.

It sounds to me - ànd probably your dad - that your making excuses for it, rather than stamping down in it. Sorry - probably not what you want to hear.

Dominodonkey Sat 05-Jan-13 23:54:09

YY So worn out

I agree with the other posters though. Fine if you don't want to smack but your child was very badly behaved. Is this a common occurrence? If so I can totally understand your DFs point. And did he apologise to your father? It wasn't your property he was hitting.

3smellysocks Sun 06-Jan-13 00:05:28

What does being violent to a child teach that child? The child learns that violence is acceptable if someone has a point to make.

If a child is dealt with calmly and fairly and in a reflective manner, what will that child learn? To reflect upon whats right and wrong and resolve issues in a peaceful manner.

I was smacked as a child and it was a road to nowhere. Very destructive long term to the relationships in my family.

Alisvolatpropiis Sun 06-Jan-13 00:11:51

catgirl I am with you there. As I said it was used very occasionally,never out of anger etc. My Mum and I have a wonderful relationship. I feel lucky in having a close family generally speaking.

WorraLiberty Sun 06-Jan-13 00:17:16

I was smacked as a child and it didn't make me violent at all.

In fact, I didn't link a smack from my parents when I was very naughty with violence anyway. To me a smack was a parental punishment and violence was something quite different.

It was a short, sharp shock that stopped brattish or dangerous behaviour right then and there in its tracks.

Again...not that I'm advocating it as times have changed, but really it was what it was and it worked for me, my siblings and many many other kids I knew.

Dominodonkey Sun 06-Jan-13 00:27:08

"It was a short, sharp shock that stopped brattish or dangerous behaviour right then and there in its tracks.
Again...not that I'm advocating it as times have changed, but really it was what it was and it worked for me, my siblings and many many other kids I knew."

Don't want to derail the thread and turn it into a smacking v non smacking but you accept that it worked and that it caused you no harm whatsoever, so why wouldn't you advocate it? (at least as an option)

Most people agree that children's behaviour is far worse now than when smacking was common place so iIreally don't get why even people who say it didn't harm them don't want to say it's ok.

And those saying it promotes violence tbh that is only ok for those who do not punish at all as all punishments promote something e.g confiscation - stealing, naughty step - ostracisation etc

Alisvolatpropiis Sun 06-Jan-13 00:36:21

I was smacked as a young child and don't link it with violence.

Being punched in the face by an ex friend I link to violence.

Moominsarescary Sun 06-Jan-13 00:42:54

I think a child learns violent aggressive behaviour is acceptable if it goes unpunished. don't smack him if you don't want to but you need to put some form of Discipline in place.

IneedAsockamnesty Sun 06-Jan-13 00:47:16

My mother was a smacker, short term it amused me intensely because it was a very clear sign to me even at about 6 that she had lost control of herself and the suituation.

It never ever stopped any bad behaviour, and often for my own amusement it created more. As a teenager I would weigh up the fun from doing something I shouldn't with the punishment, more often than not the fun won. Mainly because I knew several things

1. Nobody would actually kill me
2. Her hand hurt long before my arse did,
3. Her hand would hurt for longer
4. It was highly amusing watching her lose it

Long term it resulted in a complete lack of respect for her that took years to resolve, I love her dearly but to this day she has never been in the company of my dc's with out a third party and never will.

Taking reading time away from me would have seriously made me think about not doing the bad not allowed thing.

FobblyWoof Sun 06-Jan-13 00:50:33

I'm of the no smacking camp. I can, however, understand why you DF said that.

Again, it's a generational thing and that was his generations form of discipline.

Your son calling you names is not acceptable, for whatever reason (and TBH, and I really don't mean this in a nasty way, but not eating is an bad excuse at best). That's not considering the fact he was hitting the walls.

I'm not criticising your parenting, as you said in your OP you are doing it the way you choose, but it does sound like you could be firmer with him, too. Perhaps that what your DF was trying to say in his own way?

Himalaya Sun 06-Jan-13 01:23:38

OP -

It is horrible being stuck between your parents and your children, trying to discipline them consistently, fairly and for their own good and at the same time aware that you have an audience who is judging you.

FWIW I don't agree with reaction of some posters here that your child had a melt down at someone else's house means they are a 'brat', poorly parented or likely to turn into a juvenile delinquent. That's the thing with melt downs, they happen at the worst times, and things like not having enough to eat and being uncomfortable in someone else's house do make a difference. For you to be aware of that as a parent is not "making excuses" IMO.

Did your DS damage the wall or just kick up a fuss? It would make a difference to the consequences.

How long are you staying? Not sure what to offer in the way of advice, but I think it is worth being more than usually conscientious about bedtimes, wind downs, snacks etc... to make sure your son isn't overtired and/or hungry so tempers don't get frazzled while you are staying away.

louisianablue2000 Sun 06-Jan-13 01:28:37

Personally I think a 7 year old hitting an inanimate object when he's angry and tired is actually behaving relatively maturely. Far better than hitting his Mum or a sibling or another child at the party. Same with name calling, parents are the 'safe place' where kids can sometimes let off unacceptable steam, you can see it as children leave nurseries and schools, after a day of behaving perfectly for a teacher they go to the other extreme with their parents. A tired or hungry child is never going to be the best behaved and I don't think the OP is making silly excuses. She did say she discussed the child's behaviour with him when he calmed down (shouting at him at the time would have achieved nothing) and he apologised off his own bat which is a good sign. As he gets older he will get better at controlling negative emotions because the OP is modelling good behaviour herself BY NOT HITTING HIM. On the other hand I agree with PPs that an apology to his GF for hitting the walls is required and any damage needs to be repaired, if possible getting the child to help.

Is it worth pointing out that if she lived in Scotland it would be illegal to hit her child, in the same way it is illegal for a man to hit his wife. Presumably no-one on here thinks that is acceptable, but in the past it was. I wonder why our views on domestic violence have changed but not our views on violence towards children?

People have always claimed things were better in a mythical past but it's just not true. FWIW I'm in my 40s and can remember people at school telling teachers to fuck off AND I know that they had the kind of parents that hit them (when they weren't neglecting them), whereas there were other children who had gentle parents and who were very well behaved.

Dominodonkey Sun 06-Jan-13 01:36:50

Can you really Louisiana? You must have gone to a rough school. At no point in my school career did I ever hear anyone swear at a teacher as yet as a teacher I have heard numerous children swear at staff at a range of different schools.

And comparing wives and children is hardly relevant.
A husband is not responsible for the behaviour of his wife but it is a parents job to discipline their child. (whether through smacking or another means) - or do you think a man should now put his wife on the naughty step instead?

Musomathsci Sun 06-Jan-13 02:06:01

How do you think missing out on a bedtime story some hours after an outbreak of bad behaviour will impact on your 7 year old DS's future behaviour? Is he going to think twice before kicking off next time? He needs to know that if he does it again, something really undesirable (to him) will happen with immediate effect (confiscation of a favourite toy? time out? removal from the party or whatever).

That said, I totally relate to the hungry = raging thing. I still have emergency snacks when picking up DC3 after a long event or when he might have had a meal that he didn't fancy!

ComposHat Sun 06-Jan-13 03:29:14

Damaging someone else's house? Calling you names? and being aggressive? Would you have ever acted like that at his age? Would you have expected to get away with it?

Your son's behaviour was out of control and the sanction you imposed was too little and removed from the incident to be in any way reasonable.

It needed an instant response and a sharp reminder that their behaviour is out of line and will have a consequence. I would say a tap on the bottom or the back of the legs and then being sent to an upstairs room for an hour or so wouldn't have done him any harm whatsoever.

Alisvolatpropiis Sun 06-Jan-13 03:47:52

And OP whilst you might not want to smack your son it might be an idea to instill some sense of discipline. On no planet is his behaviour acceptable. You are focussing on the wrong issue here.

BlueyDragon Sun 06-Jan-13 03:50:39

Out of interest, what would those saying the OP didn't impose a sufficient sanction have done? I've seen ComposHat's suggestion and the no books/stories line, but what other options do people use?

sarahtigh Sun 06-Jan-13 07:32:06

in scotland it is only illegal to smack child under 3 OP's DS is 7 so perfectly legal though not a good idea generally

I was smacked occasionally as a child and I did not see it as violence, normally justified, I do not intend using smacking as punishment DD generally has to sit on stairs if out of order or TV switched off ( if on)

you said you were smacked sometimes and never given a "good hiding" so you do know that your DF did not mean it literally I think he meant more like

" DD you really need to get a grip on disciplining your son as otherwise he might be an out of control brat, and it hurts me to hear a small child calling my DD names and even more when she seems to accept it"

Lueji Sun 06-Jan-13 07:56:22

I don't smack, but don't feel that strongly against it either and see where it can be used effectively.
However, a bloody good hiding is not smacking.
Smacking can be short and to the point, whereas a bloody good hiding sounds right there with physical abuse.

I don't condone such behaviour at home either. Any hitting and any name calling is confronted right there and then, with immediate punishment if necessary.

And, yes, I'd also worry about the future if your child behaves like that, even if he hadn't had tea yet.
It was different from being grumpy.
It was abusive towards you.

How did you calm him down?

Lueji Sun 06-Jan-13 07:58:53

Also, I don't agree with missing the bed time story.

It was done well after the event, and it's a perfect time for bonding, as well as to develop his love for books.

IsItMeOr Sun 06-Jan-13 08:55:57

I wouldn't find that behaviour acceptable in my 3.10yo DS. While I might note for my own future reference that I needed to help him be more sensible about eating regularly, that wouldn't stop me disciplining.

Losing a bedtime story is both a bit wet and also potentially counterproductive, as that's good parent-child bonding time.

My DS loves TV, and so the most powerful censure we have is that he will lose his next session of TV (he's usually limited to half an hour in the morning and another in the afternoon). Or in my parent's house, we can say that we'll be going home if he doesn't improve his behaviour. I appreciate that last one is no help to you at mo!

Maybe say to him that if he can't behave well after the next party (or similar treat) that he goes to, then he won't be going to the next one. And remind him just before he goes to the next treat thing. It works fairly reliably with my challenging DS, and your 7yo should be better able to remember than he can.

Good luck!

diddl Sun 06-Jan-13 09:04:55

Can´t believe you had to tell a 7yr old why it was unnacceptable tbh.

I thought most toddlers knew that.

Mapal Sun 06-Jan-13 09:05:43

Yanbu, no need to.smack. but you need tougher methods of discipline I think.

Also, you mention he hadn't eaten and that this often links in with bad behavior.
One thing to note is that low blood sugar can cause out of character aggressive behaviour - could it be possible he has a slight blood sugar balancing issue? Diabetics when hypoglycemic (low sugar) can get extremely aggressive and abusive. Might be worth making sure he has regular snacks? Just a thought.

diddl Sun 06-Jan-13 09:09:35

I agree with getting blood sugar checked also.

Sounds an extreme reaction to being hungry-rather than just asking for something when he gets in.

GateGipsy Sun 06-Jan-13 09:10:38

I am in my mid 40s, my parents had SIX children, and did not believe in smacking. Discipline can be swift, fast, and not use violence. We never stepped out of line, or back chatted as children. My mother could use a tone of voice that would strip trees of their leaves. I haven't mastered that. I use the other family discipline techniqute. You're left sitting on the sofa with no TV, books, etc. Very efective.

None of the six of us went off the rails growing up, but I did see a lot of my (especially male) peers with anger issues in their teens that none of my siblings had. Was this due to the smacking/no smacking? Sure none of those friends went off the rails with drugs, alcohol or crime either. But I'm really glad I didn't have to go through the emotional shit they did (and I'm pretty sure they didn't even notice it really - probably just put it down to being teenagers).

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