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Anyone discouraged kids from university in light of tuition fee rises?

(382 Posts)
Officedepot Fri 04-Jan-13 09:14:46

In light of uni fees now being £9k per year (so £27k for three year degree) plus living costs students starting uni now would be coming out with debt over £40k

Anyone actively discouraged kids from going to uni on this basis?

I can understand if they are going to a top uni to study medicine or law etc, but AIBU to suggest if they are going to a rubbish uni to do a pointless degree it should be discouraged.

I have lots of friends who did degrees at second rate unis in random subjects and are still earning a tiny amount in their early 30s.......

mathanxiety Mon 07-Jan-13 03:50:29

Amillionyears, my DCs were all born there and are citizens. ExH is American.

mathanxiety Mon 07-Jan-13 03:53:30

However, I know several family members and other students with no ties the US who have left Ireland for third level and gone to EU countries or Canada or the US. Because entry to Irish university courses can be incredibly competitive many students hedge their bets and apply for similar courses abroad if they are really committed, for instance to medicine or veterinary medicine.

mathanxiety Mon 07-Jan-13 03:58:25

Patty, many Irish students work in childcare in Netherlands and Germany and can easily get more than 32 hours a month (which is basically an hour every day after all). Irish students are more likely to have studied German than Dutch but still I would say very few are really fluent. Some families look for English speakers as au pairs and three months is more or less the standard Irish school summer holiday. Au pairing often comes with a place to sleep and meals thrown in. Would taking a gap year and working abroad count for the hours or entitlement?

Morloth Mon 07-Jan-13 05:10:15

Aren't the new fees/debts things in the UK going to be like HECS debts here (Oz)?

We didn't have to pay ours until we were earning about $30,000 and even then it was only a small amount on the percentage above that, it was also not considered a 'debt' as far as getting a mortgage/credit card/car loan type things. We both wanted to be free of ours ASAP, so hammered them in the first couple of years. Though we both worked a couple of part time jobs whilst studying as well (as did everyone else we knew) in order to pay for drinking food etc. So came out of Uni pretty good.

I don't know if my boys will want to go to University, if they do I will help them out as much as possible whilst encouraging them to help themselves out as much as possible and taking any help that will make things easier for them.

dreamingofsun Mon 07-Jan-13 09:02:17

morloth - pleased that you managed to pay off your debt in first couple of years of work - but kids here are likely to have £27k of tuition fees and £20k+ of living costs - i can't see my kids earning enough in the early years to be able to pay off £47k+

i think this policy is totally wrong and if we want an educated workforce we should be prepared to pay for it - in the same way we are doing in wales and scotland.

amillionyears Mon 07-Jan-13 09:18:29

I wonder how long things will stay like they are, Uni education wise, in Wales and Scotland.

MrsSalvoMontalbano Mon 07-Jan-13 10:11:16

amillionyears - precisely! is not a good idea to project several years ahead based on status quo - the best we can give our dc is the courage and confidence to decisions that are right for them as individual adults, any attempt to second-guess the system more than a handful of years ahead is a fool's game.

funnyperson Tue 08-Jan-13 17:21:57

Getting a part time job whilst studying is frowned upon for Oxford students as they have a tight academic schedule and it is nearly impossible for London students due to the competition for jobs with adults from all over the world who are not studying and come to London to work.
The USA also has a culture of students 'working their way through college' which diminishes student debt, but this works because there is a long established culture of employers willing to employ students part time. It also works because the most academic US universities are also the wealthiest and provide almost full support to poorer students. This doesn't happen in the UK.
Working during term time detracts from studies. Working in the holidays means that the 'internships' and adventurous charity work etc much loved by recruiters go by the wayside. Those whose richer parents can pay for them to go to university and take up unpaid internships are going to be better off when they graduate. The current system is guaranteed to increase the divide between the rich and the poor.

BackforGood Tue 08-Jan-13 19:01:00

To be fair though funnyperson Oxford terms are so short, the students have an advantage over everyone else in that they are home for the holidays earlier. I know they are discouraged from working during tern time, but there's plenty of weeks in the year when they can be working.
Also, of course, Oxford takes a tiny, tiny % of all the students, so most people don't need to worry about that rules, and can continue to work as students always have done.

mathanxiety Wed 09-Jan-13 06:11:26

University students can go to the US and work during summers on a J-1 visa. Seasonable work is always available, especially in cities on the east coast and in touristy areas (Cape Cod for instance). Thousands of Irish students head off every summer on spec the day term ends and make quite a bit of money. People I knew in my student days lived in apartments designed to sleep about 6 but had a hot sheets system going and managed to accommodate about 20 at a time on air mattresses and other temporary furniture. Working two jobs and really busting your arse waitering could make you real money even after rent.

Morloth Wed 09-Jan-13 06:41:31

I had 3 part time jobs (bar, waitressing and supermarket stacking) + uni at one point DH had 2 but one of his paid well (help desk andc bar).

One of the reasons we were able to pay off the debt so quickly was because we worked while studying, so that paid for living costs and as we were both working a LOT we were able to bank some.

It was fun, you can pull those sort of hours when you are 20.grin

As I said though the debt wasn't 'held against you' at all though so it wasnt a big deal.

Is it proposed that the UK version be treated like an actual debt?

Scrazy Wed 09-Jan-13 11:20:32

Morloth, it's meant to be similar. How much did you pay for your degree and living expenses?

theodorakisses Wed 09-Jan-13 11:54:20

Nobody will ever chase you for it. There will never be baliffs at the door.
I respectfully disagree. I get constant calls from the loans people about my British engineers who owe loan money. They must spend more ringing Qatar from a landline every day than the value of the loan. I guess this is ofset on the money they spend on manners.

amillionyears Wed 09-Jan-13 12:16:34

Will the debt be taken into account with mortgages?
A debt of 40k or whatever is bound to be I would have thought.

LRDtheFeministDragon Wed 09-Jan-13 12:21:38

No, it isn't. They look at bills coming out of your account per month (so if you're paying the SLC monthly that amount off your income is taken into account), but they don't treat it like normal debt.

Dahlen Wed 09-Jan-13 12:36:58

LRD - how do you know that? All the articles I've read have said that the new repayment scheme will affect mortgage applications because it results in a lower net income.

I won't persuade my DC against university but I will encourage them only to go if they have a particular career in mind that requires a degree in a particular subject. Otherwise they are likely to have a much better career and earning potential if they follow a vocational qualification or trade.

MrsHoarder Wed 09-Jan-13 13:23:20

Thats what LRD said.

If its never going to be paid off it doesn't matter to the mortgage company if its a payment on £10k or £80k, the deduction is the same.

LRDtheFeministDragon Wed 09-Jan-13 13:30:58

dahlen - yes, that is what I'm saying. It only affects it in terms of you having a lower net income. But that's different from most kinds of debt.

If I owed, say, 40k on credit cards, it would be a total bugger to get a mortgage and my credit rating would not be good. Especially if I'd owed if for years before beginning to pay it off!

But with a loan, they don't look at it that way. They just deduct the amount you're paying per month from your income and treat it as if you have that much less income.

I'm sorry, I don't have a site to link to that would set this all out but I am pretty sure it is true. I know a fair few people with mortgages.

Dahlen Wed 09-Jan-13 13:31:43

Sorry, I misread. Thanks for clarifying. smile

LRDtheFeministDragon Wed 09-Jan-13 13:32:59

My fault, I think, I wasn't very clear. Glad it makes more sense now!

amillionyears Wed 09-Jan-13 13:34:23

Thanks for those answers.

MrsHoarder Wed 09-Jan-13 13:37:00

It also has odd side effects. We both have student loans, but because I wasn't earning when we applied for our mortgage my loan wasn't taken into account as no repayments were bring madeon it.

Scrazy Wed 09-Jan-13 13:53:55

Yes it will affect the mortgage in so far as there won't be the repayment amount to repay the mortgage with.

It's just like extra tax as if we don't all pay enough in direct and indirect taxes as it is. The burden on future graduates will be much higher than non graduates.

Trills Thu 10-Jan-13 08:51:45

All the articles I've read have said that the new repayment scheme will affect mortgage applications because it results in a lower net income.

Lower net income than if you had no loan at all, but higher net income than if you are on the kind of loan that I am (repayments at 9% of what you earn over 21k rather than 9% of what you earn over 15k).

So in terms of being able to get a mortgage the most recent set of changes have made it easier, not harder.

dreamingofsun Thu 10-Jan-13 09:03:06

trills - except that the overall amounts will now be larger - people will owe 27k instead of 9k for tuition fees

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