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To think that all this 'get the people on benefit to work' is less about cost saving for the economy and more about getting business owners slave labour?

(117 Posts)
Heroine Wed 05-Dec-12 13:01:40

I just can't help thinking, when I hear another daft greedy business owner claiming that 'work gives a social benefit' whilst advocating 16 year olds working for £2 an hour so that they can earn £50K a year plus from their small shop that all this low wage, internship and apprenticeship crap is just a way to further line the pockets of the relatively wealthy.

Also I had a big lecture from someone about how their business was doing badly, then I saw their massive house and two large guzzling cars whilst they have taken on three apprentices at £2 an hour - the same as one minimum wager! Its shocking.

LadyBeagleBaublesandBells Wed 05-Dec-12 13:04:57

Totally agree Heroine.
It's a business owners dream. Cheap labour without paying minimum wage, and they justify it by saying they're helping the unemployed.
Yea right.
Ha bloody ha.

EldritchCleavage Wed 05-Dec-12 13:04:59

I agree.

And why are people who claim benefits scroungers, but employers who refuse to pay a living wage in the knowledge the state will top up their employees' incomes aren't? We taxpayers are subsidising a lot of bosses' pay, pensions, perks and overweening self-regard.

takataka Wed 05-Dec-12 13:07:13

yep, i agree too

twinklesparkles Wed 05-Dec-12 13:07:41

Totally agree smile

NiniLegsInTheAir Wed 05-Dec-12 13:17:13

YANBU. Totally.

emmam25 Wed 05-Dec-12 13:29:21

YANBU my niece has been working ridiculous hours at a well known high street clothes retailer for £2.50 an hour under this apprenticeship malarkey and basically, they are seasonal staff, without the wages. It's disgusting.
I really feel sorry for school leavers with average results who are looking to start work at the moment as there seems to be little or no options open to them. sad

thekidsrule Wed 05-Dec-12 13:30:53

agree with all posters above


Busyoldfool Wed 05-Dec-12 13:33:08

Agree. Criminal. Yes we want a society where everyone contributes - in whatever way, and yes we need people to work but this is not the way.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Wed 05-Dec-12 13:40:57

Yabu to think that the powers that be don't want to pay less in benefits because it would be better for the economy.

YANBU to think that apprentices are paid too little.

Alisvolatpropiis Wed 05-Dec-12 13:44:07


I simply don't see how the Workfare scheme encourages businesses to actually employ people. £1.90 ph with the government paying it for 40 hours a week vs paying someone minimum wage for those hours.

flaggybannel Wed 05-Dec-12 14:46:14

YANBU! i worry that i could be made redundant then forced to do my old job for benefits as part of 'workfare' scheme- that is what we are talking about yes?

MammaTJ Wed 05-Dec-12 14:49:33

YANBU, in my youth it was the YTS and people were used and abused and unemployment figures manipulated.

Luckily, I got on a good one and am still in the same line of work.

Heroine Thu 06-Dec-12 00:01:15

I think we should encourage £2-ers to make sure they damage the brands of the people who employ them, thus learning quite a lot about how businesses should make sure that they treat their staff well in order to get the best from them, and how damaging it can be to mistreat your staff in a service economy.

Lets not forget that twat employers also need to learn how to have strong work-related skills like fairness, employee reward and consequences.

LadyBeagleBaublesandBells Thu 06-Dec-12 00:53:47

I agree again Op
Come the revolution...
But it's not going to happen sad
The huge corporate companies have way more power than our snivelling Government, they rule the world, and I can't see a way of stopping them.

Heroine Thu 06-Dec-12 07:17:21

France, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Norway all seem to do fine at resisting the drive towards Victorian poverty that we claim is an inevitable consequence of capitalism. We just have too many leaders who have been educated in the same old-fashioned values.

There is much evidence to show that businesses that fairly reward staff are more robust, have more success, grow more sustainably and are less vulnerable to market shifts, but this current government don't understand that concept. for some reason they give off this impression (like a schoolkid would) that being a business boss is about being a nasty bossy person who drives slaves. In fact it should be more complex than that - sure business is about costs, but the best businesses are not the ones that drive on costs alone (I'm thinking some of the shockingly poor council contractors for example) they are the companies who do share the wealth and influence better, so god knows why we are letting our leaders create a culture where we have our youth feeling that work is a humiliating unrewarding experience.

The obvious outcome of that is that we have a resentful unmotivated workforce who are constantly evaluating work against dole and seeing them as broadly the same - I think what I am saying is that if businesses that rely on humiliatingly low wages go to the wall and are replaced by better structured businesses we will have young consumers, not just survivors, people who see work as of value and not just humiliating, employees who will choose the best job for them rather than something humiliating from a choice of other humiliating situations, a motivated productive workforce with pride in itself and, a better economy.

YuleBritannia Thu 06-Dec-12 07:26:10

I cannot express an opinioon but there is another eay of looking at the 'apprentice' system. These youngsters have work that will give them experience. Yes, they are paid £2 an hour (or whatever it is) but the employers are paying it. If they were claiming unemployment benefit of some sort (don't know if they qualiofy), the tax payer would be paying it.

So they have work and get something , even if only a little, rather than claiming JSA for which we pay. It's a gain all round

1. Youngster gets work and pocket money with experience for which employer pays.
2. Taxpayer pays nothing.
3. Community has one fewer people roaming the streets in the summer.

Am I wrong?

HollyBerryBush Thu 06-Dec-12 07:28:01

£2 an hour earning is better than sitting on their arse all day playing the xbox

takataka Thu 06-Dec-12 08:07:29

But whilst the businesses/employers have a string of £2ers supplied by the government, they have no need to create any actual jobs which pay a living wage. There is no incentive to employ any of these people

It's a disaster

David Cameron is a fucking arsehole

KindleMum Thu 06-Dec-12 08:21:07

Agreed. Any unskilled worker should be very scared by this as why should an employer pay a real wage for an unskilled job if he can get the unemployed to do it for almost nothing?

And usually, the taxpayer is paying for this or at least subsidising it and in the case of the big corporations, they take the UK taxpayer-funded labour and repatriate their profits to their owners overseas and pay next to no tax here.

pacificjade Thu 06-Dec-12 08:24:38

We have a small business and employ several young people under 21. We train them to do the job & pay for any courses they need to do etc. We don't call them apprentices, we call them employees and pay them way above minimum wage!

We could have taken them on as apprentices and paid £2 an hour, but we think it's morally wrong. We also think that everyone works harder if they are looked after and well rewarded. It's worked for us - our employees stay with us and enjoy coming to work.

Big companies aren't creating more jobs and giving young people experience, they are just paying their staff less 'cos they can!

GoEasyPudding Thu 06-Dec-12 08:34:07

I agree OP.
I like what you are doing pacificjade, I really admire that.

Ideally every single job in this country should be paid a living wage. The only exception should be the new Saturday Kid.

How do we start the revolution? What do we do?

SolomanDaisy Thu 06-Dec-12 08:50:02

I totally agree about Workfare etc. The trouble is that we have a government who genuinely believe that helping businesses in this way is A Good Thing.

I think apprenticeships are a bit different, as they can be an alternative to full-time education rather than an alternative to a job. A proper apprenticeship with proper training and development at a young age doesn't necessarily need to be paid at full adult rate. But a proper apprenticeship doesn't involve working in the freezer shop for the Christmas season...

Mrsjay Thu 06-Dec-12 08:54:15

I agree with you know a young woman who hasn't had much luck getting a job but has been on various work placements and schemes but never a full time job her mum is really starting to wonder if she will ever find a job

expatinscotland Thu 06-Dec-12 09:09:51


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