AIBU? Business leaflet order gone wrong!

[nitrox]

Hi everyone,

Wasn't sure where to put this, but I love Mumsnet and would value any knowledge in this area.

Hoping for a little assistance please as I'm running out of things to attack this issue with.

I run my own small business and 6 months ago I ordered some leaflets to go with my items that I sell. I ordered the leaflets at 170gsm, received them, was very happy.

Just reordered a couple of weeks ago, wasn't sure what I needed as I'd forgotten the 'gsm' of my previous order. So I ordered 130gsm and emailed and said I wanted to same as I ordered before as I was very happy with them.

They emailed and said I ordered 170gsm and they would invoice me for the difference in price. I happily paid and waited the 10 days for the leaflets.

Leaflets arrive and they are paper thin and not card material like previous ones. This is important as I use them as a kind of supportive backing card for the slightly fragile item I send.

I've been discussing this with them for 6 days now. They are saying that on my first order then didn't have the 170gsm, and so they upgraded me fre of charge to 300gsm. They didn't inform me of this, I thought my order was 170gsm.

(thanks if you are still following)

So I've complained, been told I've got what I ordered.. the new leaflets are no good to me, and I've got 10,000 of them!

I've argued the facts over and over and they won't budge. The best they can offer is for me to pay £67 more + £25 shipping for them to re-make them at 300gsm. I really don't see why I should?

I have also had to order elsewhere as my stock was very low and with it being the Christmas sale period I didn't want to run out. So I've purchased 300gsm leaflets elsewhere for £154.

The problem order cost me £144, and now they want another £67 + £25.

Any help with this? I've requested a refund or a free reprint from them, but they are refusing, saying I have what I ordered.

I have the emails from me to them requesting the same as I ordered before, and them confirming my previous order was 170gsm, so based on that I ordered.

They have been messing me about and I can see it going round in circles. I've threatened small claims court and given then 7 days to refund or replace.

What else can I do? Please help..

[Piffyonarock]

Hi Nitrox, I used to work in print buying and these sorts of disputes can turn into a bit of a nightmare. Do you have an account manager at the printers or someone you could arrange to meet with? Face to face might be better than e-mails and the phone if possible. If you have the evidence re them upgrading to 300gsm without telling you then they should find it hard to argue with it, and I think they should refund or replace. They need to look at their record keeping procedures so that they check on what was produced rather than what was on the original order if someone re-orders. I don't know the legalities if you do go to small claims, maybe someone on the legal boards would be better. I'd wait it out, they might come good rather than lose your business. Although it sounds like your alternative supplier would be cheaper on 300gsm anyway. Good luck!

[Fakebook]

Name and shame?

[nitrox]

I will name and shame once it's sorted, don't want them to see my thread just yet and the advice I will (hopefully) get.

piffyonarock
I spoke with an account manager today, he was very polite but was very much trying to blame me with regards to the order and trying to insist they were okay for what I need. Not sure how he seems to know my needs better than I do. We were at stalemate on the phone and he said he would try to come to a solution and get back to me by email this evening, which is when he offered for me to pay the difference and get the 300gsm.

I have the evidence yes. He emailed me yesterday and said that the order had been upgraded. I can past the email he sent:

This was before my telephone conversation and the sunsequent offer of the 'upgrade'.

I just tried calling regarding your recent Flyer order, I have looked into this for you found the following.



On your first order placed back in April of this year (order ref EP-2422134424) you ordered 5000x DL Flyers on 170gsm Silk paper. However at the time our Factory did not have the available paper stock of 170gsm material to fulfil this order so they took the decision to upgrade the material used to 300gsm at no extra cost to yourself.



The decision was made to do this in order to avoid an excessive order delay as a goodwill gesture, it ultimately meant that there was no profit and likely cost us more to produce that what we charged you.



For your new order you specifically asked to order the same as you ordered last time which was the 170gsm Silk paper which is what we sent this time and what you paid for as last time.



I do however appreciate that we could have advised you better on this but we do rely on our customers to know exactly which specification they require in order to avoid problems like this. However as a goodwill gesture I will add a discount onto to your next order, please contact me when you?re ready to place another one so I can sort this for you.

[nitrox]

He is saying that I need to have known what to order how am I meant to do that if they didn't inform me of that upgrade?

I don't want to let this drop, but never gone to Small Claims Court before, I have a feeling I will have to, can't see them budging.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Honestly? I'm not sure this is anyone's fault. They should have told you they had changed your original order, but I guess as it was an upgrade they thought you would be chuffed and didn't bother.

You should know what gsm you needed - it seems it is sheer luck the first batch were to your liking.

[nitrox]

The thing is I don't know

I've never ordered leaflets before, and the first batch I ordered were a smaller order that the thickness didn't matter as much, I used a card backer then.

Since having these I've done away with the card back as they were study enough on their own, and so I ordered 10,000 this time, thinking they would be the same.

I don't see how I was to know any different?

[Trills]

You asked for the same as you ordered last time.

They looked at the order, it said 170.

They gave you 170.

You are disappointed, fair enough, but they gave you what you asked for. You asked for "what I ordered last time" That's what you got. What you ordered last time.

That said, can you PM me the name of the place that does 10,000 leaflets at 300gsm for £154?

[Trills]

It is unfortunate that this happened but it is not a matter for court.

[nitrox]

STRESSFREEPRINT.CO.UK

DL size, colour both sides, 300gsm, good reviews online.

I see what you are saying, but they aren't the same as what I ordered? I've not been told they upgraded them?

[Trills]

You ordered "what I asked for last time", not "what I got last time". And you did get "what I asked for last time".

I know it's annoying and a mistake has been made but I think you have to let it go.

They offered to make the thicker ones for you at a reduced cost. From the sound of things they have only asked for the difference between prices, so if you gave the the £67 you'd be paying just the amount that 300gsm leaflets cost (£67 + what you originally paid), and getting the 170gsm ones for free. That's not bad customer service really.

[nitrox]

My exact email to them straight after my order was:

I've just re-ordered some more leaflets and want to make sure they are the same gsm as my previous order. I was very happy with the last ones.

Trills I'm sorry, but I don't agree. You are saying 'I should have know', why is that? I'm not a paper manufacturer or expert. I don't know what 170gsm is, all I know, or thought I knew, was that the leaflets I had last time were correct and I wanted them again. I don't think that is an unfair assumption to make.

I even emailed to say I want the same gsm as my previous order as they were correct for me.

I already have another 10,000 coming this week from the other printers as they were cheaper and have a good reputation. I didn't look around before as I was happy with my previous order.

[Sallyingforth]

I think you would BU to push this.

The offer to redo them for the upgrade price will leave them out of pocket (again) and you will still have the thin ones as well which will be useful to you even if not for packing.

[Trills]

Here's your scenario:

I order something that has to be made to order.
I receive the thing and there has been a mistake in communication and it is not right.
I ended up with something cheaper than the thing I wanted (I paid the cheaper price).
I can't send it back because it is made to order.
The company says that if I pay the difference between the cheaper thing and the thing I really wanted, plus postage, they will make me the thing I wanted.
The company has given me a cheap thing and an expensive thing, for the price of only the expensive thing.
I have received a cheap thing and an expensive thing for the price of just the expensive thing (plus two lots of postage).

That sounds pretty reasonable.

Thanks for the recommendation by the way - have you received your leaflets from them, was the quality good?

[nitrox]

They did not tell me I was 'given' something different to what I 'ordered'.

Sorry, keep cross posting with you.

[Trills]

We know they didn't tell you.

But all you are paying above the actual price of 300gsm leafets is an extra lot of postage.

That's actually very reasonable of them. You get 10,000 thin leaflets for £25. I'm sure you can make use of them.

[nitrox]

Hoping to get them on Thursday Trills, I'll let you know.

I agree with what you say in priciple. The problem is, I have absolutely no requirement for the thinner and cheaper ones, they are useless to me.

Also, I've ended up paying £300 so far, between the two orders for something which should have only cost half that. Yes I have 10,000 new ones coming, but I have 10,000 useless ones too.

You can't honestly tell me, that is were you, you would be happy with this?

It might sounds petty, but the new leaflets aren't thick enough to support the product in the envelope, they are too thin and flimsy.

[Vix07]

Small Claims Court is not the way to go with this sort of thing, ask them for details of their Professional Indemnity Insurers as you wish to make a claim against them. Should be perfectly straightforward for them to sort out.

[nitrox]

well the price will end up being £237 for the leaflets, so the thin ones will be costing me £92.. so they aren't cheap in that respect.

Not only that, they have kept me hanging about for 6 days and I've had to order elsewhere to make sure I got them in time.

I ordered in time, but that way 16 days ago now, and as far as I knew at the time was more than enough time to get the new order.

[Trills]

I wouldn't be happy, but I'd accept that it's the sort of mistake that happens. I'd tell them that in future they should remember to make notes on what a customer had actually received, and I would have tried to negotiate the £67 a bit.

I would probably have gone grrr on AIBU, but I certainly wouldn't be talking about small claims court.

Buying in full from another company seems to be cutting off your nose to spite your face - you've paid £150ish for something that you could have paid under £100 for if you'd taken them up on their offer.

[Trills]

X-posted, didn't realise they had kept you hanging about, that is very annoying.

[nitrox]

Travelincolour I didn't mind what gsm they were as they were just application instructions, and I already used a greyboard backing card separate to the leaflets. As the business has grown and I wanted a more professional image I decided that I could use these on their own, hence why I reordered the same 'as before'.

So, I didn't look into gsm as I just needed any kind of cheap flyer. They turned out to be really good, but as far as I knew they were 170gsm.

I haven't ever need to know the gsp of copier paper or business cards.

I'm being truthful here, I'm not trying to scam them. I didn't know the gsm of paper.. the gsm isn't given in any laymans terms on their website, and I wasn't to know any different.

[Illgetmycoat]

This does sound like a tangle and poor communication, to be honest, on both yours and the printer's parts.

To avoid this happening again either:

a) ask for a paperstock sample prior to print or
b) if you can afford it, get a wet proof

The print prices for 10,000 leaflets sound almost unbelievably low. I think you should just learn a valuable lesson and specify accurately next time.