Re Nursery. And WWYD

[catgirl1976]

DS is 11.5 months. He goes to nursery 2 days a week and has done since he was 4 months old.

He has always fought sleep. Until 9 months he was demand fed, we co-slept and he went to bed when we did. At 9 months we moved him to his own cot, then his own room and gradually, through a lot of hard work got him into a routine.

His routine is now

Wakes between 5:30 and 6:30
Porridge and bottle
Snack around 9am (usually crumpets or toast and another bottle)
Nap around 9:30am, for 1.5 - 2 hours
Lunch about 12:30 / 1pm
Nap around 3pm for about an hour
Bottle at 4pm
Dinner at 6:30
Bath at 7ish till about 7:30
Bottle and wind down, story etc
Bed at 8pm

We have worked hard to get him in to this routine.

Nursery just seem to be unable to follow anything like it.

We had an issue with them not giving him his 4pm bottle and he was a wreck when we got him home. This has been resolved.

But we have had an on-going issue with his naps. He gets his morning one, but it is much later - anywhere between 10am and 11:30am. He never seems to sleep for more than 50 minutes, sometimes as little as 20 mins. He often doesn't get his afternoon nap, or if he does it's 20 / 30 minutes again.

We have raised this and they promise to sort it.

Today I pick him up and they say "oh he didn't sleep well today. he had his morning nap, but he was wide awake this afternoon so he didn't get his afternoon one".

When I look at his diary he has had from 10:45 to 11:35.

All day. 50 minutes. He isn't one yet.

He was screaming during dinner as he was too tired to eat but I could tell he was hungry. He then fell asleep in my arms at 6:55 and is now sparked out. I expect he will wake in the night hungry as he couldn't eat much and no doubt I will be up at 4:30 / 5am.

It's a great nursery in all other respects, but AIBU to think this is nowhere near enough sleep for an 11.5 month old.

What do I do? If I move him it's upheaval for him and who is to say it will be any better elsewhere. I keep raising it but they say "Oh he just wouldn't go down"

He does fight sleep, but we persereve. It often takes 30 mins to get him off and can take more but he needs sleep, even if he doesn't want to.

I suppose they just don't have the staff to spend 30 mins getting him down, but he is a mess on 50 minutes out of 13 hours.

I just don't know what to do.

We had an issue

[SamSmalaidh]

The nursery can't spend 30 minutes getting him down. They should be trying to follow his home routine but they have other children to look after too. Maybe try moving to one nap after lunch?

[YourHandInMyHand]

When you say you persevere for half an hour what does this entail? Is he crying for half an hour every time you put him down for a nap? This is obviously fine to do in a home environment but in a baby room there may be other littlies sleeping, trying to get to sleep, or being unsettled by him crying for so long.

I agree though that he isn't getting enough sleep. My DS needed a daytime nap and had at least one until he started doing afternoons at preschool aged 3 and half. Even then he could have a 2 hour nap most afternoons!

[MrsDeterminedandSpecialMum]

My DD2 10 months old is in nursery 2 full days & 2 half days a week. She has a max of 30-45 mins sleep during the day as she is to nosey stubborn to go to sleep when she is tired.

On her long days at nursery I drop her off at 8am for breakfast. She gets collected by DH at 5:30pm along with DD1 8yrs (they do after school club) he brings her home and gets her changed, gives her a bottle and she goes to sleep about 6pm and wakes about 7am next morning.

If he won't sleep in the day I'm afraid not much you can do as they can't really spend 30mins to hour trying to get him to nap when other children are needing attention. Sorry!

[lisad123]

The thing is they have loads of babies to deal with not just your ds and in all likelyhood they like to get them down for a nap about the same time so as not to wake each other up.

[catgirl1976]

Raspberry - so far I have raised it at pick up / drop off with his key worker. DH thinks we should make an appointment to see the manager. I don't want to piss them off too much though (I know that sounds wussy, but I don't want any bad feeling towards me rubbing off on him IYSWIM)

He doesn't cry when he goes don, he just fights sleep and stands up, rolls around, babbles and generally does anything other than go to sleep

I get they don't have the time we do to get him down and that he will be disturbing the other babies so I don't want to go all guns blazing, because I can see it from their POV, but 50 minutes is just nowhere near enough for a baby his age.

[Naysa]

If you want someone to spend 30 minutes trying to get your child to sleep perhaps trying someone who has that time to spend specifically on that task. Like a nanny. Otherwise there's nothing you can do.
YABU they have other children to care for.

[vodkaanddietirnbru]

at that age both mine had dropped to 1 nap per day which was around 11ish and then eventually got pushed until after lunch. They cant spend all morning trying to get him to sleep as they have other children to look after and they cant force him to sleep if he doesnt want to. DS gave up his daytime nap by the age of 2 as well.

[ChippingInLovesAutumn]

You spend half an hour settling him for a nap?

I hate to be the one to say it, but you haven't got him into a routine. You are in a routine, but not him.

Nursery cannot dedicate half an hour to settling one child, they just can't.

You either need to get him into a routine where he knows it's nap time and that's that and will go down without a fuss or change his care to a nanny or childminder that don't mind doing this as well.

[YeahBuddy]

I don't think moving him is the answer, you'll just end up with the same problems as the nursery environment is so much different to the home. My twins have just turned one and are also at nursery two days a week. On a good day they have a morning and an afternoon nap of varying lengths but more often they just have one nap. This is not the nurseries fault though, they don't deliberately make them stay awake. There might be other things going on, activities taking place, other children being noisy etc, whereas at home it would be completely silent at nap times.
Yes, I agree the nursery should stick to your schedule as much as possible but they still need to have a loose schedule for all the children to keep some kind of order.

[vodkaanddietirnbru]

p.s. on nursery days when he hasnt had a lot of sleep then guve his dinner early, miss out the bath and just get him straight to bed

[catgirl1976]

I have though letting DM have him those 2 day but overall I think nursery is good for him for the interaction with other babies (we just have him)

I don't like the idea of a nanny (don't like the idea of someone in my home etc)

If I am BU, is there stuff I can do to try to get him to go more easily?

I don't think it is BU to expect them to try to make sure he gets more than 50 minutes sleep a day though. They hadn't even tried to put him down this afternoon.

[catgirl1976]

God sorry - I can't type today, that should have said "I had thought of letting DM have him those 2 days"

[TwoCrazyKids]

But they said they put him down and he didn't sleep. What else do you want them to do to get him to sleep??

[mymatemax]

Also by the time you get this routine sorted with the nursery he will be a little older & his needs will change, thats the thing with babies routines you must be a little flexible to allow for his development & daily life.
Couldnt you accept that the nursery allow him a morning nap, afternoon nap, bottles & lunch but allow them a little flexibilty to do it when suits your ds & the nursery.
Dont fall out with a nursery over something that will disappear of its own accord shortly anyway.

[LavenderPots]

why dont you try just for an afternoon nap if he can last till after lunch without a nap? as he may sleep for longer then?

[LaCiccolina]

Nope I dont get this Im sorry. The nursery has how many kids in the class? The kids have to follow their routine when there. Its that simple. An extra bottle can be handled but extra naps for yours only when theres only so many staff per child in the room? Are you telling me seriously that you would prefer to see another 8 children go a staff member down so yours can try to get another sleep? Turn this around on yourself, what would you think of the mum demanding this?????

I found it much easier to accommodate some of their routines into my day to help dd adjust at weekends for example lunch would be at 11:15 am. A stupid time of day but frankly it works if you think of breakfast at 8, snacks at 10, lunch at 11:15, bottles and nap at 12:30-2pm. I still do it now, accommodate some of their stuff in to my day I mean. IT WORKS.

You are forcing your wants on him as far as I can tell.

[mosschops30]

I would change to a childminder or nanny.
You cant expect a nursery to follow your routine, they have 20 ish children there and they will have their own routines

[TwoCrazyKids]

Sorry x-posted, just read they didn't try to put him down at all today.

[catgirl1976]

TwoCraxy - no they said he was "wide awake" so they didn't bother putting him down. That's what has annoyed me most today - they didn't try

LaC - the nursery has 3 babies in the class on a Tuesday.

[catgirl1976]

When we chose that nursery they told us they would follow our routine.

This is from their website

"In the Baby Room there is no strict daily routine. We will cater for your child's needs so will therefore follow a routine that has already been established at home, if this is that benefits your baby the most."

I really like the place and the staff, I don't want to be an awkward parent, but he was just in such a mess tonight and really upset

[HecatePropylaea]

I think perhaps a tiny bit unrealistic, maybe. I think nursery is probably too exciting and stimulating an environment to waste on sleep the toys, games, noise and other babies/toddlers.

Plus the staff to children ratios mean you aren't getting 1:1 and they have to balance the needs of all the children in their care and perhaps can't follow however many probably clashing routines.

Maybe a nanny, if that's affordable?

[HecatePropylaea]

X Post. After reading that promise from them - I withdraw my post