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To think the basic income tax rate should be raised

(65 Posts)
ReallyTired Mon 05-Nov-12 23:26:28

These sort of cuts are dispictable. I feel that tax payer in the country should pay more tax rather than have cuts to disabled people on this sort of scale.

Prehaps the mumnetters who whinge about cuts to child benefit should count their blessings. For them losing child benefit means fewer meals out, or a slightly less exotic holiday. Cuts to the support that disabled people get can cause suicide and REAL unhappiness. What is shameful is that Dave Cameron had a severely disabled son and should understand the living hell these families go through.

Before anyone starts, these autistic people and their families are probably taking out far more out the system than they will pay in tax. However there needs to be a level of compassion.

AuntieStella Tue 06-Nov-12 08:41:04

And what is your proposed increase?

How much does it yield, and precisely what changes to services are you proposing, and what do they cost?

Which elements of service delivery are local, and which are central, government responsibilities? Or local NHS trust responsibilities?

I think we all want to see things working better. But improvements need actual costed proposals.

For them losing child benefit means fewer meals out, or a slightly less exotic holiday.

Well that is a massive and disgusting generalization - how on earth do you know how the child benefit cuts are going to affect people? Did you mean to be so rude?

Also What is shameful is Dave Cameron had a severely disabled son and should understand the living hell these families go through.

David Cameron is a multimillionaire and his wife is a heiress, they were hardly in the same position as a family with a disabled child relying on benefits.

HorraceTheOtter Tue 06-Nov-12 09:18:31

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Justforlaughs Tue 06-Nov-12 09:25:29

I don't think that the basic level of income tax should be raised, however I do think that those who are supposed to pay tax should do so! It really is as simple as that. Forget about whther they are avoiding tax or evading tax, morally they are the same thing. If you should be paying it then PAY IT! Simple. I also think that some disability living allowance is a joke, people who do get it shouoldn't always do so, and others who desperately need it don't get it (or not enough of it anyway). Needs a total rethink.

wordfactory Tue 06-Nov-12 09:31:36

I think we need to consider how to increase tax take.

But that might mean introducing some counter intutive ideas which would not be politically expedient. Many voters would rather have a tax system that feels fair, than one which would actually increase tax take.

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 06-Nov-12 09:36:59

YABU..... but what would increase the tax take would be to raise the tax-free allowance to a much higher level and then introduce a flat rate of, say, 25% for all earnings over that. Much fairer, would take a lot of people out of paying tax all together, people in the middle would pay roughly the same, and there would be less incentive for high earners to seek out tax avoidance schemes.

wordfactory Tue 06-Nov-12 09:39:21

But cogito the electorate will never go for that.

When GB introduced the 50% rate everyone rubbed their hands together. Never mind that the impact in terms of tax take was negligble.

Tweasels Tue 06-Nov-12 09:42:59

Don't be ridiculous. Income tax isn't the issue here. No reasonable person wants services and benefits for those with additional needs cut but many people are struggling to make ends meet on low wages so higher tax rates would push them into the "better off not working" bracket.

The money should and could be found by tightening tax loopholes.

Hammy02 Tue 06-Nov-12 09:47:26

If anything, the level at which someone gets taxed should be reduced. Someone on a low wage, eg, less than 20k shouldn't be being taxed. It is ridiculous that people are taxed then get tax credits to make up the shortfall in their living expenses.

wordfactory Tue 06-Nov-12 09:49:59

Hammy yes. It seems ludicrously clumsy to tax someone and then pay them back!

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 06-Nov-12 09:52:53

"The money should and could be found by tightening tax loopholes. "

Some of the biggest loopholes are the various thresholds for paying different levels of tax. Look how many people are trying (legitimately) to put money away in pension schemes etc so that they can get themselves under the higher rate tax threshold and still qualify for CB. Look how many prefer (legitimately) to take income in the form of dividends where it attracts Capital Gains Tax at a lower level than income tax. Flattening rates, simplifying the system and reducing exemptions means fewer opportunities to do this

Mrsjay Tue 06-Nov-12 09:54:30

2 people earning 40k each will entitled to child benefit but a one person family earning 50k gets it cut I am not sure that is fair, no tax rise is needed imo maybe lobby the government to see how they are spending the money

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 06-Nov-12 09:58:03

CB should be dispensed with and the CTC - paid on household income - should be increased for those who qualify. I think, once Universal Credit gets established, that anomaly will be eradicated.

latebreakfast Tue 06-Nov-12 10:29:09

The government already takes around 40% of GDP in taxes. YANBU to want to help these people but YABU to think that putting up taxes even further will do so.

EllenParsons Tue 06-Nov-12 10:39:25

YABU to make such generalisations.

ReallyTired Tue 06-Nov-12 10:55:49

The suffering of families with disabled children is far more than any middle class family who has lost their child benefit. The bleating about financial hard ship is pathetic. Maybe it isn't fair, but its nothing compared to the unfairness of having a child with a severe disablity.

The reality is that taxing the better off does not bring in lots of money as there are not that many better off people. I feel that we need to increase overal taxation to fund services.

noviceoftheday Tue 06-Nov-12 11:03:16

I think Labour missed a few tricks when they were in government and made some errors in the personal tax policy.

They would have been better off not introducing the starting rate of 20%, keeping the basic rate the same instead of reducing it and the additional rate of 50% that they introduced at the very end was clearly just a political hot potato to the Tories from a dying government. They would have been better off introducing it at 45% so less likely to get the Jimmy Carrs of this world trying to avoid tax. They also missed a trick in not radically increasing the personal allowance to £10k (as hopefully we will get now).

The 20% starting rate probably needs to go but its such a political thing that it would be a brave party that went there.

Tweasels Tue 06-Nov-12 11:23:08

Are "middle class" people really pleading hardship? I don't personally know anyone effected by the changes who is pleading any kind of hardship.

The CB changes are just complicated and not well thought through but taking one benefit from one place doesn't replace another anyway.

You need to direct your rage at our Government not at hardworking, families who earn.

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 06-Nov-12 11:46:13

Increasing 'overall taxation' means you'd have to increase the tax companies pay as well as individuals. Plus you're looking at indirect taxation like fuel duty or VAT. Tax companies too heavily, they will need to cut costs elsewhere and one of the quickest ways to do that is to shed staff and reduce hours... which is what happened in the 2008 credit crunch when cash-flow dried up and why we're in a recession now. Higher unemployment means less income tax going into the Treasury and higher benefit payments going out. Increase indirect taxation like VAT and everyone's cost of living goes up, including that of disabled people.

GhostShip Tue 06-Nov-12 11:47:42

For them losing child benefit means fewer meals out, or a slightly less exotic holiday

aww diddums hmm

threesocksfortheguy Tue 06-Nov-12 11:51:46

I agree with you about the cuts to disabled people. they are sick.
i do not agree that d scam would ever have a clue what it is like to struggle to bring up a disabled child, he has money and did not do hands on care.

my dd will be severely affected by the cuts, she is about to enter adult services, and it is scarey. our respite will most likely cut!! yep even though overnight she will not be cured.
I can't cry about someone on nearly 50 grand a year losing cb.

Iggly Tue 06-Nov-12 11:55:48


Maybe we should stop wasting money on administering stupid things like the proposed changes to child benefit. Maybe we should stop lining the pockets of private sector operators (yes we do, because when the government pays the private sector to do it, they take profit too). Etc etc etc.

ReallyTired Tue 06-Nov-12 12:00:08

CogitoErgoSometimes, I like your posts.

I feel that increasing income tax is the best way of increasing revenue without hurting companies. I agree with you that increasing indirect taxation like VAT, or fuel duty harms the economy.

I agree with you that putting up the threshold and raising basic income tax to 25% would make low income families less dependent on benefits. It would simplify the tax system and bring in more much needed revenue.

We also need to close tax loop holes which allow the likes of Amazon or Ebay not to pay tax. This needs to be done at European level.

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