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...to still push for full payment in lieu of notice despite job offer?

(29 Posts)
coocoocawhooOOOOO Sun 04-Nov-12 15:03:57

I've posted previously in employment issues but the situation has moved on and I think this is more of an AIBU than employment query. Having had a crap year at work since returning from maternity leave, things finally came to a head and I walked out in floods of tears and have spent the last two months signed off for work related stress and more recently, anxiety/depression.

While off, I desparately applied for jobs not thinking that I would find anything. I didn't hold out much hope in current climate but got at an interview for my dream job and have been made a verbal offer. I've just been sent the forms for referencing and once signed, they will go to my current employer.

I've also been discussing my return to work with current employer as I'm ready to face the working world again(following discussion wth GP) but have told them (without prejudice) that I don't see the point in returning given the breakdown in the working relationship and I'd like to arrange my exit. They seem on board with this and I've proposed a compromise agreement paying me my contractual 3 month notice period. Now waiting for them to come back on this and hoping they dont drag their feet.

I think that once they receive a request for references they are unlikely to agree to my proposal. Thing is, I'm not convinced given my sick leave that I will ultimately get the job - flowery has clarified that they can't withdraw offer if I'm fit to work, but I remain paranoid.

I don't want to hold off on references as new employer would like me to start asap, but if new job falls through, I will need that 3 months pay. I also think that as current employer made my life a freaking nightmare for 9 months, I am entitled to some compensation but admit I am unwilling to go down the route of a formal greivance procedure as it is likely to be very messy and upsetting.

AIBU not to come clean with current employer? Hope that's the right question!?

mutny Sun 04-Nov-12 15:05:58

Has the new employer asked you directly about sick leave or why you are leaving?

ivykaty44 Sun 04-Nov-12 15:06:23

sounds like yanbu, as for advise though don't have any suitable sad

Hope you get your dream job

NatashaBee Sun 04-Nov-12 15:08:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

coocoocawhooOOOOO Sun 04-Nov-12 15:09:27

mutny - no, I've no idea whether they will ask about absence in the reference either, the form I have is simply for authority to request a reference. They asked why I wanted to change area as still in same industry and I truthfully answered that I wasn't motivated by current role anymore
but didn't disclose the details.

Thanks ivykaty,

coocoocawhooOOOOO Sun 04-Nov-12 15:12:38

Natasha that's a good idea. I'm wondering then if I should tell them about the job offer so I can submit the reference form but say that the reference they provide would need to be agreed. I'm still leaning towards getting this agreed before submitting the reference form.

mutny Sun 04-Nov-12 15:14:35

I think they could retract the job offer if they feel you have misled them. But that's down to interpretation.
I would still carry on and if you old employer refuse because of this, cross that bridge when you come to it.

GailTheGoldfish Sun 04-Nov-12 15:22:01

Speak to ACAS, get some proper advice about where you stand legally
www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1461

cumfy Sun 04-Nov-12 15:41:54

Write your own reference and start negotiating.

Do you get on OK with line manager's boss ?

coocoocawhooOOOOO Sun 04-Nov-12 16:08:30

I think you're probably right mutny, I'm not comfortable being evasive with either party but am nervouse because so mush is riding on this sad

coocoocawhooOOOOO Sun 04-Nov-12 16:11:32

cumfy I do get on ok with line manager's boss but am only dealing with HR at the moment, the situation has been escalated beyond line managers.

Think I will have a go at writing reference this evening.

mutny Sun 04-Nov-12 16:33:37

I worked for one of the uks biggest companies. And we uses to do references. 'technicall' hr were meant to be the not ones. But they didn't take account circumstances and individuals.
So on occasion we (managment) did them. is this a possibility? Tell the company you have one or put some ones name known who may 'forget' the sickness?

its wasn't breaking the rules more 'bending' them iyswim.

Sausagedog27 Sun 04-Nov-12 16:48:24

I got made redundant with a compromise agreement. I also had gained another job in that time. In the agreement it included a reference as agreed by all parties. I would be honest with your hr- advise them that you would like to include an agreed reference in your compromise agreement and say that you have had a verbal offer of a job and would like to progress this all quickly. I think you are confusing the two issues- the reason they are paying you off is because there has been a breakdown and the signing of an agreement will waive your right at further challenge. In spite of the new job, they have still done wrong by you and you are offering the simplist way of resolution- the other being going down the formal route. Don't tell them that you don't wish to do this at this stage (even if you don't) but press for a quick resolution. Good luck!

fuzzypicklehead Sun 04-Nov-12 16:48:39

I would definitely seek professional advice from ACAS or CAB regarding where you stand before proceeding.

A standard reference request form would ask for the number of sickness absence days, so it will come up. It may be worth talking to the person who made the verbal offer to explain your circumstances, because it will sound better if you are up front about it.

coocoocawhooOOOOO Sun 04-Nov-12 20:49:57

Thanks all for advice and comments. I think I have been confusing the two issues as suggested above. I now see that to be paid the 3 months notice is effectively what I am saying I will settle for, regardless of whether the job offer falls through or not.

On that basis, I think I'm going to submit the reference forms but will also call ACAS first thing tomorrow morning to get make sure I'm covering off everything. ( and to ask what should go in a standard reference).

Sausagedog27 Sun 04-Nov-12 21:51:46

Good luck op!

coocoocachoo Wed 07-Nov-12 09:52:10

Coming back to provide update and also to cheekily ask for bit more advice!

So work have agreed to pay me three months notice upon me confirming resignation without need for a compromise agreement. I said ok subject to agreement on reference. HR said that they would only provide their standard factual reference in any event i.e. Coocoo was employed by us from/until such and such date, state what my job title was and confirm that they have no reason to doubt my integrity, honesty etc... I also asked about disclosing sick leave and HR said that they did not have to disclose this even if asked.

I have therefore resigned and my reference will show that my employment with them terminated as of yesterday.

I said I would get back to new employer to confirm whether my notice period could be shortened so I need to e-mail them today but have NO IDEA what to say...that my current employer has just agreed to let me go?? Does that sound really suspicious?

Any advice on how to word?

mycatlikestwiglets Wed 07-Nov-12 10:30:42

I would just say something like "I am delighted to confirm that I have come to an arrangement with my employer such that I am now able to join you with effect from [date]" (insert whatever date you like if you want to give yourself a couple of weeks' holiday. You don't need to go into specifics about it at all if you don't want to. Congratulations btw.

socharlotte Wed 07-Nov-12 10:31:19

Do the new employers know anything about your absence for depression/stress?

redskyatnight Wed 07-Nov-12 10:34:09

Sounds like a good result for you. I don't think there's anything to worry about tbh. Your new employer asked you to find out if your notice period could be shortened. You just need to go back and say that you've spoken to your current employer and they are happy for you not to work your notice - you don't need to give an explanation or anything. I'd say something along the lines of "I've spoken to my current employer and they are happy to release me early, therefore I will be available to start work with you from x date".

coocoocachoo Wed 07-Nov-12 10:35:35

Thanks mycat. I'm wondering if they would question the date with me when they get my reference though? This pobably doesn't matter though I suppose.

socharlotte, no they do not know anything.

CajaDeLaMemoria Wed 07-Nov-12 10:37:28

Yes, my concern is regarding your sick leave too. Have you mentioned this at all to the new employer, even if you didn't go into detail?

Have you been asked about sick leave, absence or disabilities?

coocoocachoo Wed 07-Nov-12 10:49:24

I like the wording redsky/*mycat*, I will draft something along these lines and see how it looks.

caja, I haven't mentioned sick leave at all and have not been asked. The closest question in the interview was "so why do you want to work for us?" rather than why do you want to leave your current job. They are both very different roles and will be moving from private to public sector so suspect they probably made assumptions about my choice to apply for a public sector job.

I was sort of hoping they would ask so that I could be up front with them. I didn't know how to broach the topic though without the prompt IFYSWIM. Didn't feel that I could say by the way, I am currently signed off with stress/ depression although I am actively working to resolve these issues.

I am now fit to work (discussed with GP who will back up in writing if necessary) and am happy to answer the question now I have a verbal offer. I understand they can not withdraw on the basis of illness if I am now fit to work.

My current employer has agreed not to disclose sickness absence though, so does this need to come up at all? I appreciate that that sounds a bit shady but if there is an opportunity to make a completely fresh start then I am quite keen to take it. Do you think this is going to come back and bite me in the arse?

LaCiccolina Wed 07-Nov-12 11:03:01

Lost as to why u want to agree a reference. This is actually protected by law already. They cannot phrase a badly worded cv. Most firms now only provide to and from work dates. U can ask for a copy.

The relationship at work broke down and u are negotiating a compromise. This agreement is reliant on a) how much they want rid of u. B) how much they are prepared to pay to do so.

U may find if they have any corporate sense that a clause is included describing ur leaving date in 3mths time eg mid February (from now). Payment might likely not occur til that leaving date. And may therefore preclude u working during the time u r on gardening or leave. This could protect their client confidentiality and business interests. This could well mean u cannot ask for a reference or accept another re til ur actual leave date.

Do not sign anything without checking it with a lawyer. U really do need one. They will not do anything to protect u, just tgemselves. Hr does not work for u. They are solely there to protect the firm from litigation. I know the marketing suggests they are there for the employee but they are not. It's just marketing. Don't believe it please.

LaCiccolina Wed 07-Nov-12 11:06:32

Crossed with updates. New negotiations happen all the time. They won't blink at it. Just think, thank god she can start....

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