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To wonder why so many honour killings happen in Islamic countries when Islam preaches peace?

(1000 Posts)
Mooblies Fri 02-Nov-12 21:11:14

Also, how could a parent who loves their child consider killing them for honour, or do the people that commit them not really love their children?

LimeLeafLizard Fri 02-Nov-12 22:41:27

Have you looked for any books on this subject? MN seems a strange place to 'research' something like this. A poster's first guess answer is unlikely to be accurate.

Alisvolatpropiis Fri 02-Nov-12 23:21:41

I was under the belief that honour killings are a cultural rather than religious thing. As in,Spain and France may both be Catholic country's but have different cultural norms?

I think re Muslims and honour killings taking place in the UK it may be partly to do with the massive struggle that must go on between immigrant parents wanting their children to integrate but also retain their forefathers culture. But that's just my own hotchpotch theory about UK honour killings

Regardless of the culture,nationality or religion of the people who carry out honour killings,they are utterly despicable. In my personal opinion.

Katiekitty Fri 02-Nov-12 23:22:34

Just wondering - are these murders often known as 'honour killings' also applied to men?

I only hear of women or girls being murdered in such a way. Not men or boys, only women.

Anyone got a view on this?

suburbophobe Fri 02-Nov-12 23:32:10

Yes, I've heard of young men having to flee their families into a refuge because of refusing an arranged marriage (not in UK though, but I'm sure it happens).

lovebunny Sat 03-Nov-12 00:01:04

some men are killed and some do go into hiding. sometimes that's because families are due to receive large sums of money from the bride's parents, and if the boy refuses, it shames everyone and the money is lost.
the partners of women in 'honour' situations are sometimes killed.

CrikeyOHare Sat 03-Nov-12 00:04:09

Paraphrased: "Good people will do good things. Evil people will do evil things. But for good people to do evil things - that takes religion". (Stephen Weinberg).

That's why.

ClippedPhoenix Sat 03-Nov-12 00:06:18

Because religion is man made for men.

FreudiansSlipper Sat 03-Nov-12 00:09:24

because it is more to do with culture than religion but can use religion or what they believe to be Islam to justify it

ElaineBenes Sat 03-Nov-12 03:08:28

It's cultural.

You get 'honor' killings among Arab Christians but not Indonesian Muslims for example.

missingmumxox Sat 03-Nov-12 03:59:03

cultural, and weak parents, some people whatever their religion will weather the storm and protect their children.
your question is like arranged marrages in islam is wrong! why? and not actually realising it is cultural, I have 3 friends who went through the whole "arranged marrages custom" 1 Muslim, 1 Christian and 1 Jewish, and having gone through it with them from the get go, my Muslim friend eventually got married at 37 after 15 years from him qualifing as a doctor and "matches" his chose his wife from the years of women he met and dated with chaperons, who he said did what he did with his sisters which was drive them to venue sit well away from couple and drive her home when she told them too which also included get me away from this person, Christian friend "shush she married for love...10 years later she told her parents, she lives in the USA" but one of her suiters she passed up on she mentioned to her parents would be great for her sister and her sister is married now to him and a happy bunny.
my Jewish friend withdrew from the process completely, never married and is now unfortunatly dead at 42, so we will never know where his story would have ended.
I prefer the idea of rather than arranged marrage, assisted marrage.
so honour killings are nothing of the sort they are weak people, in an odd way I think they do love their children in the main, but not too the exclusion of all others.

mathanxiety Sat 03-Nov-12 04:23:56

When a man's standing in his religious community depends on the chastity of his daughters, and his standing in his religious community is all he cares about, because there is no other community and he has not other way of establishing his standing -- the whole place is dominated by this one focus on religion and all are uneducated and misogynistic -- then unfortunately it is a tough lookout for the daughters.

There is no such thing as 'Islam preaches'. It is not a centrally organised religion. You can choose whatever aspect of Islam you want to focus on. Some choose jihad and pray daily. Some choose making sure women do not go out in public unless covered head to toe and pray daily. Some shrug about what women wear, live happily in the west or the mid east, and pray daily.

TanteRose Sat 03-Nov-12 04:42:30

Note also that honour killings are almost unheard of in the world's largest Muslim country, Indonesia. Nor in Malayasia.

dolcelatte Sat 03-Nov-12 05:25:56

I dislike the phrase 'honour killing' to describe murder; the phrase seeks to justify the unjustifiable.

It is true that no religion has the monopoly on psychopaths and nutters, but we cannot allow these people to rely upon dubious religious tenets to justify criminal offences. One of the best things about the UK is its diversity and tolerance, but we must not allow this to cloud our judgment in failing to condemn actions which are morally wrong.

Women still get a shitty deal in a number of countries - think of the poor girl who was almost murdered recently just for wanting an education.

Valdeeves Sat 03-Nov-12 05:34:39

Softly softly has in it in the bag - I agree

Madmum24 Sat 03-Nov-12 07:44:38

Interestingly (but horrifying obviously!) when i lived in the middle east 95% of honour killings were carried out by christians.
The whole honour killing being synonomous with islam is anti moooozlem propoganda mostly from DM if you ask me.
Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance, killing anyone let alone your child is forbidden.

Orangelephantshavewrinkles Sat 03-Nov-12 08:06:44

Throughout history as far back as records go there has always been killings in the name of God.

anewyear Sat 03-Nov-12 08:09:51

Quote 'Because they misuse their religion, corrupt it, twist it and use it to control'

Got it in one

Fakebook Sat 03-Nov-12 08:28:52

I think this is an inflammatory thread too.

Honour killings don't happen just in Islam as others have stated above. The ones that do happen are often due to cultural pressure. A lot of people who murder their children in the name of honour are uneducated immigrants who think children must obey their parents at all costs. They come from their home country with a specific ideology about traditions, unbeknown to them, their country moves with the times and arranged marriages become more about the children choosing their own partners but these people are still stuck in a time warp.

One could argue how the Catholic Church allowed so many young boys to be abused, even though they preach peace and love. The fact is, bad people exist everywhere. Writing about Muslims killing their children sells newspapers and makes money, as it is the current religion that is being targeted by the world, just like the Jews were 80 odd years ago.

sadie3 Sat 03-Nov-12 08:58:25

[2.190] ...fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you...[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

[193]...fight with them...[194]...whoever then acts aggressively against you, inflict injury on him according to the injury he has inflicted on you...

reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord [meaning they are enjoying their 72 virgins in heaven];

There are 164 Jihad Verses in the Koran!

pigletmania Sat 03-Nov-12 09:23:48

It's not a silly thread, perfectly legitimate question to ask. This has been happening quite a lot in recent times, we get so embroiled in being pc, we fail to see what's going on underneath. Similar things happened with forced marriages, it was kept hidden, government/police afraid to tackle it due to sensitivity and pc issues, not wanting to interfere. Now the government agencies are getting involved to tacke it

SucksToBeScaryMe Sat 03-Nov-12 09:35:19

People used to brick up their daughters ???


Nancy66 Sat 03-Nov-12 09:44:57

in the case of honour killings - once a woman has considered to have brought shame on the family she is thought to be worthless - so her life doens't matter.

much the same as suicide bombers convince themselves that murdering innocent people will guarantee them a special place in heaven, some extreme Muslims believe that brutalising and murdering women is the will of god and they will be rewarded.

pigletmania Sat 03-Nov-12 10:07:06

These issues do exist, like the FACT that there are a lot aedophiles from the Asian community groom white British girls not ones within their own community. Why is it ok to say things about Christians, in fact any one other than tgroups because its not pc to talk about it. In the news this week was about the death of a little boy who was beaten and killed by his mother for not remembering passages from the koran. I was flamed on here a few months ago because I disagreef with a video that another poster ad linked to where a 2 year old girl was being drilled quite aggressively on Islam.

pigletmania Sat 03-Nov-12 10:39:16

These issues do exist we cannot ignore them for the fear of being seen as offending different ethnic groups. That is why I was a bit hmm at lovecats post suggesting tat this is a mischievous thread, why is it? It's a perfectly reasonable observation

FreudiansSlipper Sat 03-Nov-12 10:46:04

That was me piglet, arabic sounds aggressive to us and they tend to speak a lot louder there were no signs the little girl was distressed andas I posted on that thread no one questions the hateful and dangerous things many israelie children are taught

we do need to tackle the problem of honour killings and in this country it is mainly connected to the Muslim community but it is not part of Islam a true follower of Islam though many believe themselves to be would not do this. There are many problems is many Muslim countries poverty being the biggest and lack of education. Verses like previously posted can be quoted but read the Koran as a whole and they have a different meaning (as bible verses do). Islam is so often attacked it is creating more of a divide, people cut themselves off more this is why statements like I the title are misleading and dangerous if poster had read the Koran she/he would understand that honour killings are cultural

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