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to be furious at this? Re: Social Services and PND.

(75 Posts)
PeggyCarter Tue 30-Oct-12 18:27:28

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AnnaKissed Tue 30-Oct-12 18:36:37

Yes, but this woman was mentally ill, so her fear (that SS would take her children away) was caused by her mental illness, and was, in this case, not a valid fear.

Interestingly the radio 2 report that i heard today said she wasn't taking the ADs because of the effect on her breast milk, no mention of SS, and this is perhaps a more valid realistic fear.

2cats2many Tue 30-Oct-12 18:39:08

The news reports are saying that she didn't take her anti depressants because she was worried it would affect her baby VIA her breastfeeding, not because she was worried they would be taken away by SS.

I agree tho, it is heartbreaking. Poor children, poor mother, poor father. It's just hideous all round.

I have had close friends who have suffered from severe PND and I dread to think what would have happened to them if they didnt have people in their lives and houses helping them to survive it.

Sirzy Tue 30-Oct-12 18:39:45

One of the problems though is you can't stop the irrational thoughts and no matter how much someone tries to convince you otherwise you won't believe it.

It does suggest, yet again, a massive lack of support for those struggling with mental health issues and I would hope that anyone in that position were for whatever reason they are scared to take drugs is offered alternative therapies and support to help them rather than being left to it. All to often that isn't happening though or waiting lists are dangerously long.

saintlyjimjams Tue 30-Oct-12 18:41:29

It sounds rather as if she had a psychotic episode which is obviously a whole different ball game. A very sad story sad

pigletmania Tue 30-Oct-12 18:42:30

I agree with you. I was so afraid to seek help, dd was so difficult, would cry from 9am 9pm relentlessly everyday. Her cry was like a howl. One night I nearly put. Pillow over her head I was at my lowest. I immediately went to see my gp who described me AD and was so lovely, did not threaten to take dd away. Dd has ASD s nw I know why she was so hard as a baby.ds 9 months by contrast is an absolute breeze, no pnd and such a totally more positive experience tan dd

Goldmandra Tue 30-Oct-12 18:50:28

From the BBC website

"She had been prescribed anti-depressants but had not been taking them after becoming convinced the babies would be taken away from her because of the effects of the drugs on her breast milk."

So a bit of both really. Her fear was a result of irrational thinking.

I have to wonder how many women get very close because I sure did. I remember someone talking about a woman who had killed her baby and then committed suicide. They were incredulous that she had killed her baby first but it made perfect sense to me.

I did get ADs shortly after that thank goodness because I blurted out to my GP that I was worried I was going to harm my baby. When I look back now I realise that my thought processes were very twisted but I am very sure nobody else had any idea and I presented as being very together and capable until I broke down at the GP surgery.

I'm not sure we can blame the system for irrational thinking in women with severe PND. We can blame it for not always responding appropriately when their need for support becomes apparent.

scottishmummy Tue 30-Oct-12 18:50:59

reported she suffering enduring delusions and paranoia as result pnd
op this has nothing to do with sw.the manifestation of delusions was result pnd
unfortunately your response to blame sw is unfounded,and potentially fuels misconceptions about sw

Raspberrysorbet Tue 30-Oct-12 18:55:56

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PeggyCarter Tue 30-Oct-12 18:56:21

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Raspberrysorbet Tue 30-Oct-12 18:57:21

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OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Tue 30-Oct-12 18:58:20

It's an awful story, and it is terrible that this woman felt like she had no choice but o do what she did. I'm not sure exactly who or what you are angry at though. No one is to blame for the way this woman felt. The very nature of her illness was that she as going to think irrational thoughts and was going to feel convinced of something that wasn't true. She could have been paranoid, we don't know that the prescribing doctor didn't tell her that the drugs would do her baby no harm through the breast milk.

The thing is, that maybe if the babies had been taken away from her, they would still be alive and she would have been able to recover and then go back to being a good Mum.

I have no idea how you stop a woman with a severe mental health problem from believing that her child might be taken away from her when in fact in some cases the children being removed could be the best thing for them.

Sirzy Tue 30-Oct-12 18:59:11

I don't think in general society there is that misconception at all. I think though fear of losing your child is a 'normal' with PND and often this manifests itself though a fear of social services

scottishmummy Tue 30-Oct-12 19:01:06

the thread title doesnt help,it infers it's a sw issue.it wasn't
let's be clear she was diagnosed,known to services but noncompliant with med
mental illness impairs and impedes clear thinking and situational response.I wish ms boots and her family well,she has received a treatment order and I hope she makes recovery and maintains good mental health

PeggyCarter Tue 30-Oct-12 19:02:01

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PeggyCarter Tue 30-Oct-12 19:03:28

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OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Tue 30-Oct-12 19:06:32

I agree with Sirzy.

I don't think I'm a perfect parent, but I'm not mentally ill so I can see that if I was ever to be involved with SS or any sort of child protection service or intervention, then they would be there for help and support.

It's the illness that makes women believe their children will be put into care, not a common misconception.

scottishmummy Tue 30-Oct-12 19:07:05

op you're presuming your strongly held opinion about sw us universally shared
clearly you feel this strongly given your strident wording

MyLastDuchess Tue 30-Oct-12 19:07:44

I read her story in the news today and just felt so, so sad for her and her husband (and the kids of course).

I have suffered from depression my whole life (completely in remission thanks to ADs) and here in NL where I live, I was referred to a special 'pregnancy psychiatrist' to make sure that I didn't have problems with antenatal depression and, later on, PND. If you have had depression in the past then you are at higher risk.

I changed my ADs and thanks to the great support and guidance I received - plus a lot of luck - I have never suffered any problems. I was even able to breastfeed DS on the ADs I had and with DD due in a few weeks I will be doing the same.

I have a very strong personality and am very assertive (OK I am a bossy opinionated bitch grin) so I have never felt anything more than annoyance at the ignorant people who think I should just give up ADs and struggle through 'for the sake of the baby'. (Thanks to the support here I know that the unborn child also suffers if the mother has antenatal depression, with complications beginning with low birth weight going all the way through to maternal suicide.) However it is quite shocking how many people - with no medical training whatsoever - truly believe that you should not take any drugs at all while pregnant or breastfeeding.

At my last two appointments with two different people, they have both commented on how great it is that I feel no shame or guilt about needing medication, as it is very common that pregnant women feel terrible about taking ADs during pregnancy.

I'm not sure we can blame the system for irrational thinking in women with severe PND. We can blame it for not always responding appropriately when their need for support becomes apparent.

I agree and ideally I would love to see systems in place in other countries like the one we have here in NL. I would include some links but they're all in Dutch which I'm guessing most of you can't read smile. There is a very organised programme for all women who have psychiatric problems - from depression in remission, like me, through to much more serious issues requiring much heavier drugs - to make sure that they and their babies get the best possible care.

I'm of course not suggesting that I have all the answers but I just feel so much for that family and wish that things could have been different for them.

scottishmummy Tue 30-Oct-12 19:14:58

I wish ms boots well,and hope she recovers and has adequate support
I hope her husband is well supported and I note he's supporting her
good family support will be really invaluable to ms boots

PeggyCarter Tue 30-Oct-12 19:34:29

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Raspberrysorbet Tue 30-Oct-12 19:40:03

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OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Tue 30-Oct-12 19:43:43

What do you think it is that makes people think that then Puddle? (Genuine, hope that doesn't come across as snarky)

Because it doesn't seem to be a common belief among people I know, but then as far as I'm aware, I don't personally know anyone who has any dealings with social services, (except for the couple of Foster carers I know).

scottishmummy Tue 30-Oct-12 19:44:11

you've recalled your v difficult experience of illness,and the distorted thinking of pnd.
glad you're well, and this story must have had resonance for you
in your posts is a clear anger to sw.the illness is the significant factor here not sw

MorrisZapp Tue 30-Oct-12 19:45:48

I think you've picked the wrong angle OP. To me, I'm much more concerned about the number of people on here and in RL who need medication but either won't ask for it, or won't take it if given it, because it is for a psychiatric disorder.

I was hideously ill with pnd, but delayed seeing the doctor for weeks, then took ages to decide I would accept the meds. Like so many others, I was just scared and intimidated by the diagnosis of mental illness. I thought 'but I'm not mad'.

I think that people with mental illness should 'come out of the closet' if they can. There needs to be so much education and awareness raising about mental illness in general, and pnd in particular.

People who need drugs should be taking them.

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