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to think that if those care workers had done what they did to NT kids rather than learning disabled adults the sentences would have been more severe?

(278 Posts)
Greensleeves Fri 26-Oct-12 13:25:53

I watched the documentary about Winterbourne View and it was one of the saddest things I have ever seen. I think the sentences are a joke. Wayne Rogers in particular delighted in torturing powerless people who couldn't defend themselves.

I can't help wondering whether the sense of public outrage, and the severity of the sentences, would have been greater if the victims had not been SN adults?

sad and angry

Greensleeves Fri 26-Oct-12 13:30:11


DozyDuck Fri 26-Oct-12 13:32:44

I thought that when I read it. It terrifies me. I hope I live forever and stay strong enough to care for DS for the whole of his life.

MrsRobertDuvallHasRosacea Fri 26-Oct-12 13:35:41

No I don't.
I would hope people have been more appalled by the fact they were SN Adults and therefore more vulnerable.

Pagwatch Fri 26-Oct-12 13:36:57

Yes. There would have been outrage if this had been happening at a regular school.

CailinDana Fri 26-Oct-12 13:37:19

YANBU at all. I worked in special schools for a number of years and what I learned is that as soon as a person can't speak up for themselves they will be treated worse than everyone else, even by "kind" people. When I challenged some of my colleagues on some of the unthinking things they did and said they were mortified - they didn't realise at all that they did it. It's almost as if, as soon as person couldn't talk or understand what was being said, they just became invisible.

Plus, I always say this on threads like this - as long as the NHS offers to kill your child for you if it has Down syndrome, people with disabilities will never be seens as fully human.

missymoomoomee Fri 26-Oct-12 13:40:01

Cailin your last sentence is a vile thing to say.

merlottits Fri 26-Oct-12 13:40:21

I believe so. I think that this group of clients are generally not considered cuddly, sweet or helpless. They are generally not appealling (unlike small children and fluffy animals) and I think a large proportion of society would rather adults with special needs were kept out of view.

That documentary nearly broke my heart (I am a care home manager) but you are right, the outrage would have been 100 times greater if it had been children (or kittens and puppies).

Pagwatch Fri 26-Oct-12 13:44:41

I was at an assembly at my sons special school.
They had raised money for a local homeless charity.
Several representatives of the charity sat behind me and talked loudly all the way through about how hideous it must be to try and care for one of those, what hard work it must be.

These supposedly caring people who had rocked up to take the stuff the schools children had worked to raise peered at them, criticised and commented much as if they were at a zoo.

I have come to the conclusion that people sadly regard those with LD/SN as something less than really human. I am not sure they would even be aware that they think like that.

EnglishGirlApproximately Fri 26-Oct-12 13:44:49

Good god I've just seen it on the news. I didn't see the documentary and I'm thankful for that. Those poor poorpeople and their families. I don't think barbaric is too strong a word to describe the 'carers.

The sentences are far too short.

I also think the caring industry is due overhaul. While most carers are committed and professional I think recruiting agencies need to stop advertising that no experience is required and it needs to stop being an entry level job. I feel that caring for the most vulnerable in society should be considered as a vital service.

missymoomoomee Fri 26-Oct-12 13:49:39

The documentry was awful. I really felt for the undercover reporter as well as these vulnerable adults. He was saying throughout it that he felt like shit for watching these awful things going on and not stopping it, despite knowing it was for the greater good.

I think their sentences were far too lenient, I think the highest one was 2 years.

FangsGoForTheMaidensThroat Fri 26-Oct-12 13:50:20

yes, am really shocked at the short sentences

SoleSource Fri 26-Oct-12 13:52:45

If I know I am about to die and I can still get to Beachy zhead I.dependentely that is whete DS and I will end our lives together. Nothing will change.

CailinDana Fri 26-Oct-12 13:53:27

Missymoo, it's not a vile thing to say, it's a vile thing to do, and it's what the NHS does. I'm not responsible for that.

MrsRobertDuvallHasRosacea Fri 26-Oct-12 13:55:25

Callin very unpleasant.

I think 6 years was the highest, but some got suspended.
Unfortuanately that's perhaps the highest the judge could give. Totally wrong. Sentences for abuse are shockingly low.

missymoomoomee Fri 26-Oct-12 13:57:44

Cailin unless you have been in the position of having to make the choice to terminate a child who would be disabled then keep it zipped. Its a particularly hard thing to do and comments like yours are not helpful at all and bear no relevence to anything on this thread, and is basically you just being nasty and judgemental.

CailinDana Fri 26-Oct-12 13:58:11

It's a fact that the NHS routinely offers to test unborn babies specifically for Down syndrome with the understanding that of the people who test and find a positive 98% will abort. When you have a society that condones that, is abuse like this really shocking? The hypocrisy astounds me.

Greensleeves Fri 26-Oct-12 13:59:23

I don't agree with Cailin's views, but I don't think they are irrelevant. She should post her opinion to be discussed along with everyone else.

CailinDana Fri 26-Oct-12 13:59:46

Oh and saying "I would terminate a child with Down syndrome, but I believe those already alive deserve the best of care" is pretty fucked up IMO.

SoleSource Fri 26-Oct-12 14:02:13

I do not watch stuff like thst. Slow torture is too good for those sad pathetic evil cunty losers.

Pagwatch Fri 26-Oct-12 14:03:24

It would be nice if a thread about the care of people with SN focused on that. Frankly they are pushed down the agenda often enough

edam Fri 26-Oct-12 14:04:16

details of sentences here

I don't know what sentencing guidelines applied, but the punishments do seem on the lenient side - v. good point by OP comparing it to sentencing of people for similar cruelty to NT children, wonder what those guidelines say?

Loads of other people need holding to account as well. Care Quality Commission, council, care home operators (an effing private equity firm IIRC - honestly, investors who just want a quick buck shouldn't be allowed to be put in charge of vulnerable people)...

Greensleeves Fri 26-Oct-12 14:06:16

I do think that is part of the problem edam. Conflicting agendas. Caring shouldn't be about profit.

Mrsrobertduvallsaysboo Fri 26-Oct-12 14:06:34

Maximum 2years then.

itsatiggerday Fri 26-Oct-12 14:07:12

I'm not defending the length of the sentences, I'm amazed they're so short. But the Chief Super of the police authority said they had brought the disability hate crime aspect into the case and were glad it had been taken into account so seemingly they're actually longer than they would have been if the kids had been NT.

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