Lying double glazing men! Help!

[EggInABap]

Hi all

Sorry if this is in the wrong area.

I had new double glazed windows and doors fitted yesterday. They completed the work whilst I was out and had left before I got home. Very pleased with the windows.

I called the company whilst I was at work to make payment (rather trustingly before seeing the final result, as they had done the upstairs on Monday and I was so happy with that I didn't foresee any problems). I paid £2740 on my bank visa debit card and £850 on my credit card.

When I got home I noticed my sofa, which is normally up against the wall, had been pulled out about 4 inches and moved over 5 inches. When I moved it back I saw a huge chunk taken out of our laminate floor. So basically rather than having the good grace to let me know they decided to try and conceal it. The sofa is nowhere near the window and there was no reason for them to touch it.

I called them at 9 when they opened, they have just called back to say it was there when they got there. As you can imagine I am fuming. So my word against thiers.

The chap who was here is coming back Friday morning to have a look. But if he is already lying what good will that do.

Can I get either the bank payment or credit card payment reversed? I have a feeling they would be quicker to sort it out and accept they are wrong if they haven't been paid in full!

Thanks

[LFCisTarkaDahl]

If you have workpeople in though and something gets broken you would claim on your insurance anyway wouldn't you?

[EggInABap]

So I have to claim on my insurance if they damage my property? Isn't that what their liability insurance is for?

[imperialstateknickers]

Your insurers would chase their insurers for the money.

You may be able to stop one or both payments. Talk to your bank, tell them what you've told us. If you don't ask you certainly won't get!

[mrsfuzzy]

you could try c.a.b for advice, are they with a registered firm that has a governing body, if so i would contact them and get advice, i personally would not claim on the insurance because it could push up your premiums and why should you pay for damage they caused? i'd stick to my guns on this one, of course they'll deny it, but they should have their own insurance and take reasonable care when in someones property. also speak to your credit card company, they might be able to suggest something, another idea send a letter to their parent company explaining what has happened and be prepared to take them to small claims court if need to try to get your money back to cover the damage, alot of companies will often settle out of court as it isn't generally worth the hassle, i know this from experience, but do chase it, c.a.b. can advise small claims if need be, good luck.

[FireOverBabylon]

Stick at them over this - they can be made to pay. My mum had someone in to decorate the living room. He split paint on the carpet and tried to clean it up with a rag, driving it further into the pile and splitting the pile of the carpet so there wasa patch which was visibly different to the rest of the carpet.

The company said it couldn't have been him then came out to look (mum had his cleaning rag from the bin which helped) and in the end their insurer paid up. I've also had electricians in a rented property who managed to knock DH's stereo off a shelf and smash it. They paid up for that as well.

Put your sofa back where it usually is, get your old photos out to show that you haven't moved it, and get a quote for the replacement of the damaged panels (if possible) or whole floor, then phone the company again, ask to speak to [named manager] - get heir name off their website, and clearly state that his staff have damaged flooring in your house. It is in the interests of his company to have satsfied customers who recommend the company to their friends.

[EggInABap]

Thanks for your help.

I have now called both the credit card company and my bank. Both have said I can set up a dispute to get the money back but I have to prove they caused it and there's no guarantee I'll be successful.

If I can't prove they caused the damage how likely is it I'd be successful with the small claims court? I don't want to pay out more money for nothing. Will have to try get some professional advice.

My husband is ringing them now so will probably make the situation ten times worse! Thanks for your help.

[EggInABap]

Thanks Fire- the manager said all that too, these guys have been with them for over ten years very reliable they wouldn't lie etc. Except they are. I will name and shame them to everyone if this isn't sorted.

[chipsandmushypeas]

Never pay for anything before seeing the final result.

[valiumredhead]

After having workmen in for nearly a year chips I agree - pay half if necessary and the rest on completion when and if you are satisfied.

Hope you manage to get it sorted OP.

[EggInABap]

Have well and truly learnt that lesson the hard way!

[Pendeen]

"If I can't prove they caused the damage how likely is it I'd be successful with the small claims court? "

Very unlikely indeed.

Effectively it's your word against theirs.

[chipsandmushypeas]

I think most of us have, sadly Egg :(

[valiumredhead]

I would really make a fuss and keep going on and on about it - you never know they might give you a good will gesture just to shut you up.

[SuzysZoo]

i think if you do end up in the small claims court there is a very good chance you will be believed if you have a sensible statement and come over calm and collected. Obviously if you have another adult saying the same thing, that would be even better. It is true that in the small claims court (just the local county court actually) it is often "one word against another" but the judge will listen to both sides and care about the end result. do not be put off - the judge should be nice to you and listen to what you have to say. If you are making a claim for less than £5,000 you won't get legal costs even if you win so It's not worth paying a solicitor. Go to your local court and get a form and do it yourself. Or look online for free help (or your CAB should be able to help). Check your house insurance too, although I wouldn't claim on that as it will push up future premiums.

[valiumredhead]

I don't think it cost much to go to small claims either, does it?

[quoteunquote]

The company will have insurance, insist that they claim on their insurance, we do construction, we are insured up to ten million, so that we are covered in the event of any damage to a property, and we take out extra cover when working on properties that would cost more than that to replace, should the worst occur.

I keep saying this on here,

When you hire anyone to do work on your property, please ask to see their insurance details before you hire them, then (and this is the important part) phone that insurance provider and make sure that the cover is current, and ask for them to contact you if during the period of works the cover is canceled, because a lot of unscrupulous trades get the certificate then stop the payments, as they are pricing against those who don't pay insurance and/or work cash in hand. If you do this, then if at anytime in the future you experience problems with the work done, you are covered through their insurance,

Mention it would be very short sighted for them to leave you as an unhappy customer, as of course you will have to share that experience with others,

It does not matter if you only discovered the damage after paying, they are still responsible,

ring the company and ask for their insurance details, it will at least make them know that you are serious,

Contact trading standards, ask if the company have had any other concerns log with them.

[mrsfuzzy]

egginabap don't give, you go girl !!

[CackleMeIAmYours]

"If I can't prove they caused the damage how likely is it I'd be successful with the small claims court? "

The burden of proof in a civil court is much lower than in a criminal court.

In a criminal case the prosecution have to prove their case 'beyond all reasonable doubt' but you would only have to convince a judge 'on the balance of probabilities' that you were correct.

[Pendeen]

The whole question of insurance is irrelevant if the company continue to maintain they did not cause any damage.

'Balance of probabilities' is technically correct although a even a civil court requires a measure of proof. If the OP has - as she states "no proof" it is unlikely a claim will be successful.

For example such evidence as:: "The sofa is nowhere near the window and there was no reason for them to touch it." is very likely to be mentioned by the company in their defence.

"Mention it would be very short sighted for them to leave you as an unhappy customer, as of course you will have to share that experience with others, " is always relevant however if the company do not perceive the OP's influence on other customers as being in any way significant this is not going to have any effect.

[SaraBellumHertz]

Balance of probabilities is not just "technically correct" it is correct.

The court basically decide who they think is most likely is telling the truth. As a pp said if you are calm and present your story coherently you have a very good chance of being believed.

[Pendeen]

As has the other party...

The court will require more than just a calm and presentable appearance.

[SaraBellumHertz]

In my professional experience courts often find in favour of claimants without the existence of any evidence beyond the word of the claimant. If your experience is that claimants are only successful when they present evidence beyond their own oral evidence, which seems to be what you are suggesting then I am amazed.

OP keep persisting with the company. Speak with your insurance company to see if they can assist but if not start proceedings in the small claims court. A claim can be started online (sorry can't link as on phone) and it is very easy to do it yourself. Good luck

[chocolateorangeyum]

Are the company members of Fensa or the Glass and Glazing federation? If you make a complaint against the company and it is not resolved then you can contact them and they should be able to mediate between you and the company.

[Pendeen]

You may "be amazed" but that does not change the fact that the OP has asked for opinions on the likely success of a claim based on - in her own words - "I can't prove they caused the damage ".

Your opinion happens to differ from mine.

That is all.

Anyone can claim "professional experience" online.

[MummytoMog]

YABU. Price up a new bit of laminate floor, let them know the cost and I think they'd probably pay up. It's not exactly brain surgery to lift out the damaged section and replace, and accidents do happen. It's not nice that they're lying about it, but I imagine they're worried about insurers making the pay for an entire new floor. Your laminate is probably more expensive than mine, but it would only cost me £20 to get another pack to replace a section.