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Complicated Christmas - what's best for the kids?

(292 Posts)
duke748 Tue 16-Oct-12 13:00:32

I'm not going to say which party in this I am yet, do I can get some honest opinions on the best arrangement for Christmas without giving my 'side'.

Man has double life for 2 years and is found out in June of this year. He has a 15 month old DD with one woman (woman one) (who he lived with) and a 21 month old DS with another (woman two) (who thought he lived with his parents)

He now does live with his parents while he saves up for his own house.

The man and woman two are trying to give it another go and hope to live together next year. Obviously this is not a sure thing, as lots of issues to get over.

Relations between the man and woman one were very fractious but have settled down into frosty co-parenting. Things can and do erupt over relatively small things and all of the hurt comes out.

Woman one has banned the children from seeing each other or her DD seeing woman two. She is very hurt and thinks woman two must have known and sees her as the 'mistress'. Woman two denies this, as man's parents and boss both were in on whole thing and also lied.

Woman one has also fallen out with man's parents as they were involved in the lie. Both say that there is no way back from there.

Woman two would like the children to meet whilst they are still young so that it is not a big 'reveal' later on.

Current access arrangements are that man sees his DD every other weekend and one evening a week. He sees his DS te alternate weekend (with woman two) and also none, one or two day a week (again with woman two), depending on other plans. The DD and DS have not met.

It is the DDs weekend to see her Dad 22nd-23rd December, and the DSs weekend after. It is also the DSs birthday on New Years day.

Woman two and DD live 10 mins from man. Woman two and DS live 2 hours away from man. Woman one is originally from overseas and has strained relations with her family. Woman two has no family at all, no parents or siblings. As they are giving it a go, woman two is not keen on woman one and man spending time alone together.

So (and if you've got this far - well done!) - what do you think is the best arrangement for Christmas for the benefit of the children? Is it worth setting up a 'system' for each year now, or just deal with this year for now? Part of me thinks that they are too young to really understand it anyway, but not sure really.

And yes 'man' is a complete arse and should have realised the consequences of his actions long ago. But what is done is done and I'm most interested in finding out your opinion on what is best for the children. There has been so much hurt in the past, I just don't want it handed down to the next generation. But because I'm involved I'm worried I am not seeing things clearly.

waltermittymissus Tue 16-Oct-12 13:04:37

Ok. Wow.

Firstly, yes he is an arse and if you are woman two I really hope you've thought long and hard about setting yourself for another fall with this 'man'.

From your dates, man won't have either child for Christmas. His access is to the 23rd so child will be home for Christmas?

Are you asking if the children should meet at Christmas? Sorry, I'm confused!

5Foot5 Tue 16-Oct-12 13:07:39

Wow that's complicated

Knee jerk reaction is neither woman one or two should have anymore to do with this a***hole ever - let alone at Christmas.

cantspel Tue 16-Oct-12 13:08:45

what are you asking?

Should the kids be aware of each other and met?

I would say yes as they have a right to know each other.

Should they met at christmas?

No. They should be introduced at a time when everyone can concetrate on the needs of the children which wont be christmas as too much other stuff will be going on.

Should either woman get back with this man?

Hell no not if they have any self respect or sense.

duke748 Tue 16-Oct-12 13:08:54

Hi, yes very complicated!

I'm asking what you think should happen Chrstmas Eve, Christmas Day, Boxing Day.

Woman one says that the children cannot meet, do man having both children at once isn't feasible.

ClippedPhoenix Tue 16-Oct-12 13:10:27

In such a precarious situation how could you "set up" a longterm system? Who would set this "system" up?

It all sounds absolutely mad!

I think both women should ditch this sorry excuse for a man and spend christmas with their respective kids and other family.

MsVestibule Tue 16-Oct-12 13:12:51

Gosh. To answer your last question, I think while things are so raw, the mothers should decide what they want to do this year, and work out a system in the next few years.

And you're right. The man in this scenario is a complete arse, twat, wanker and deceitful. It makes me sick that a man could treat two women like this.

BonVoyageCharlieBrown Tue 16-Oct-12 13:13:27

Honestly he sounds like a complete twat. If you are woman one, its sounds like a lucky escape. If you are woman two I wish you all the luck in the world.

As for the kids meeting, at some point they will eventually have to meet. I'm a bit confused by the christmas bit. What does he want to do at christmas?

degutastic Tue 16-Oct-12 13:13:44

Hard to say whether you're being unreasonable or not without knowing:
a) which party you are
b) what it is you plan to do.

scurryfunge Tue 16-Oct-12 13:14:00

Are you the " man" OP?

impty Tue 16-Oct-12 13:15:32

The women and children deserve a calm, peaceful happy Christmas without this sorry excuse for a man.

He deserves a quiet, lonely one where he can contemplate his actions.

degutastic Tue 16-Oct-12 13:15:57

No, I'm still lost, according to your OP, he doesn't have access to either child at Christmas so both will be with their mothers. If he's spending Christmas with woman 2, then presumably by default he will see his DS, but DD will be with woman 1, two hours drive away...

MsVestibule Tue 16-Oct-12 13:16:21

Scurryfunge I suspect so.

OptimisticPessimist Tue 16-Oct-12 13:17:40

I think both women should ditch this sorry excuse for a man and spend christmas with their respective kids and other family.

This ^

He sounds like utter scum.

BonVoyageCharlieBrown Tue 16-Oct-12 13:18:25

My ex always has dd christmas eve eve (if you see what I mean) and boxing day. I always have her christmas day. He doesn't seem bothered. It works for us.

I would get this year out of the way then sort out introducing the kids in the new year. I suggest going to mediation

waltermittymissus Tue 16-Oct-12 13:19:45

Well this Christmas he shouldn't have either children IMO.

He needs to get his act together. Learn how not to be a prick, for example?

Both women should have Christmas WITHOUT HIM, with their children. Access/meets can be organised when they're older.

But, fwiw I think it's right that the children meet at some point. They are innocent and are siblings.

OptimisticPessimist Tue 16-Oct-12 13:20:55

From re-reading, I suspect man has suggested he spends Christmas with Woman One and DD as they live so close, and Woman Two objects as they are now the ones in a "relationship" and she doesn't trust W1 and M together.

duke748 Tue 16-Oct-12 13:21:05

Promise I am not the man, but one of the women. Will reveal which once
I have a consensus on what people think.

It's woman two who lives 2 hours away with DS who is still with man. She would like to spend Christmas Day with man, her DS and mans family. She has no other family of her own.

OptimisticPessimist Tue 16-Oct-12 13:23:38

Look, there's no way it can be fair to both children. Both are primarily resident with their mothers, and their shared father cannot be in both places at once. I suggest you (who it seems clear to me is W2) give up trying to use that as your standard. Of the women, clearly W2 who is in a relationship with this scumbag man has a greater "claim" on his time, but clearly no one can be forced to do anything. What do M and W1 suggest?

cantspel Tue 16-Oct-12 13:24:01

sounds like woman 2 is desperate and wants the family christmas with this man because she has no extended family of her own.

ChocHobNob Tue 16-Oct-12 13:24:03

Duke, you must be woman 2.

If Woman 2 and man want to spend Christmas together that they can do that. It is then up to man and woman 1 when they want to arrange for him to see the child over Christmas.

Woman two lives two hours away. I should imagine it is highly likely there is woman 3 somewhere in this equation as well.

If you OP are woman two I would seriously get rid of this burden........he sounds like a complete tool!

duke748 Tue 16-Oct-12 13:24:26

Also - trust me I know he deserves to never see either woman or child again and sit alone contemplating what he has done.

But what do the kids deserve? FWIW - both woman one a woman two say he is a hands on Dad, and they both seem to enjoy spending time with him.

waltermittymissus Tue 16-Oct-12 13:25:20

Well, if she wants to spend Christmas with him because she has nobody else then that's her lookout.

Personally I think she's mad. She should concentrate on her ds and herself. Particularly herself actually, in the hopes that she gains some self respect and gets rid of him.

People feel lonely at Christmas and I understand that. But she won't be alone. She will have her lovely ds.

Are you woman two? Because the Christmas arrangement doesn't really affect woman one since DD's visit will be done by 23rd?

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