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in not allowing my ex to let my 5yr old daughter talk to her death row boyfriend on the phone

(116 Posts)
munkiboy1971 Wed 10-Oct-12 22:00:57

She's been 'involved' with death row inmates since we split 2 yaers ago. She's sent pictures of our kids to them before and I asked her not to involve them in her relationships before now but I recently found out that she was allowing our youngest daughter to talk to her latest squeeze when he calls (using his illegally held mobile phone which inadvertanly have been paying for with the money I give to her for the kids).
It creeps me out to know she's been doing this and I've asked for a signed letter to say she's not going to do it again.
She's a pretty fancy piece of work but I really don't understand how even she can possibly think that what she is doing is in any way right.

ScrambledSmegsEvilTwin Wed 10-Oct-12 23:09:39

National Institute of Justice site seems to say that mobile phones are definitely not allowed.

NIJ site

ScrambledSmegsEvilTwin Wed 10-Oct-12 23:11:41

Look, this is bad. You need to have it documented. And you also need to try to get residency, to protect your children. She clearly has major issues and I'm not surprised you're worried about your kids.

Flojo1979 Wed 10-Oct-12 23:11:43

5 kids, Blimey, no wonder the woman has lost her marbles and is behaving completely irrationally!

imperialstateknickers Wed 10-Oct-12 23:13:40

Absolutely everything in writing from now on, if it wasn't already.

Where do her own family stand on this? Are you in contact with them?

ShotgunNotDoingThePans Wed 10-Oct-12 23:15:26

So many comedians here. I'm sure there are lots of mothers of five who manage to keep their children away from unsuitable situations like this.

PedanticPanda Wed 10-Oct-12 23:15:53

They are allowed to make phone calls. You didn't need the 'illegally held mobile phone.' Sloppy.

Yes but you also need to pay for those phonecalls and as he's in the States he probably wouldn't be able to use the phone in the middle of the night to call her. Uk prisoners also have illegal mobile phones snuck in to use.

GoldShip Wed 10-Oct-12 23:28:35

5 kids, Blimey, no wonder the woman has lost her marbles and is behaving completely irrationally!

Lets not excuse her behaviour.

munkiboy1971 Wed 10-Oct-12 23:30:59

I'm not really in contact with her family and, if I'm honest, she's probably told them a whole host of horrible things I'm supposed to have done to her. She has the wool pulled over their eyes I'm sure.
In the early days after our split I managed to read some of the letters she'd had from these 'people' where she'd said I had beaten her up and the kids. One even offered to get me shot.
She's a pretty nasty piece of work. I really don't know what lies she's been telling about me.

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 10-Oct-12 23:38:45


Smeghead Wed 10-Oct-12 23:47:24

5 kids, Blimey, no wonder the woman has lost her marbles and is behaving completely irrationally!

How fucking rude!

I cope just fine with my 6 kids thank you. And that includes not making sarky comments aimed at people who can cope better then you.

Smeghead Wed 10-Oct-12 23:47:46


Smeghead Wed 10-Oct-12 23:50:14


If she is unhinged then you have no choice but to intervene. What is the alternative? Do nothing and possibly allow your children to suffer? Speak to a solicitor about getting emergency measures in place to protect them, do not do anything silly like not returning them after a visit as that will make you the bad guy and you will likely lose any subsequent court action.

imperialstateknickers Wed 10-Oct-12 23:52:51

Hmm.. doubt you'll get much support there then - shame.

any idea what group/charity first put her in contact with this man? They may possibly have a code of conduct about drawing unrelated minors into these relationships <clutching at straws here>

LFCisTarkaDahl Wed 10-Oct-12 23:55:33

Well it shows poor judgement but at least they're not getting out - she could be shacked up with a weirdo instead.

I'd be using that to try and get residency though - she doesn't sound like she has good judgement.

I'm surprised with all you've said you haven't tried already.

ErikNorseman Thu 11-Oct-12 06:55:04

Just to clarify for people, this is not a child protection issue. It shows poor judgement and is certainly inappropriate but social services will not be interested on the strength of this alone.

ripsishere Thu 11-Oct-12 07:16:22

If this is true, it's worrying. My SiL who has MH problems is in contact with three me. One of whom has proposed and she is seriously considering it.
I know for an absolute fact that they don't have phone access.

Boomerwang Thu 11-Oct-12 07:37:31

I'm sure it's not hard to get hold of a mobile in a prison. They can get anything they want if they have something to trade, including from prison officers.

fluffyraggies Thu 11-Oct-12 08:17:06

I'm surprised this isn't a child protection issue. It seem really obviously inappropriate to be involving children in a relationship like this. She is an adult and it's up to her who she spends her time on - the kids don't have that choice. It's very sad. And wrong.

OP - i haven't any better advice for you other than that which has been given already here. You need to get someone onside who has proper legal clout. They will advise on the abuse allegations against you as well.

Other than this issue, how is the rest of their lives with her? Is she a good mum other than this? (in other words is there any other issues you can use to get residency?)

imperialstateknickers Thu 11-Oct-12 08:37:48

OP I'm going to run your story past a friend of mine who works in the UK prison chaplaincy service. Don't expect a fast reply, but she may know a bit more about how the UK views this sort of thing. Meanwhile keep on with the stuff suggested already. ATB

LadyWidmerpool Thu 11-Oct-12 08:58:10

I think the can of worms is open and they are wriggling around all over the place TBH. Call a solicitor today.

Nancy66 Thu 11-Oct-12 09:01:31

FSG - people fall for it every time.

BigBroomstickBIWI Thu 11-Oct-12 09:08:31

Are we being invaded by F4J again? This is the second very strange OP in the same number of days.

OwlLady Thu 11-Oct-12 09:09:46

surely it's a safeguarding/child protection issue?

surely no mother in her right mind would let a vulnerable child talk to a criminal on death row??

OwlLady Thu 11-Oct-12 09:10:28

^The Children Act 1989 sets out in detail what local authorities and the courts should do to
protect the welfare of children. It charges local authorities with the “duty to investigate … if
they have reasonable cause to suspect that a child who lives, or is found, in their area is
suffering, or is likely to suffer, significant harm” (section 47). Local authorities are also
charged with a duty to provide “services for children in need, their families and others”
(section 17). It is section 31 of the Children Act 1989 that sets out the NSPCC’s “authorised
person status” which means the NSPCC has the power to apply directly for a court order if it
believes a child is suffering or likely to suffer significant harm.
The Children Act 1989 defines “harm” as ill-treatment (including sexual abuse and nonphysical forms of ill-treatment) or the impairment of health (physical or mental) or
development (physical, intellectual, emotional, social or behavioural) (section 31). “Significant”
is not defined in the Act, although it does say that the court should compare the health and
development of the child “with that which could be reasonably expected of a similar child”. So
the courts have to decide for themselves what constitutes “significant harm” by looking at
the facts of each individual case^

imperialstateknickers Thu 11-Oct-12 09:50:40


I've had a reply from my friend, text is below, with xxxx replacing names.

"Hi xxxxx

I appreciate your concern on this one! I don't know anything about the rules in the US but it does seem weird that these children are being expected to have contact with a person who is on death row! I would be concerned about the effect on the kids, for whom it will, to some extent be a loss when he is executed - and for her to be in a relationship that's going nowhere!
All very complicated.

In the UK prisoners can have phonecalls to their children and photos sent in, tho I'm not sure about other peoples children. The contact is only deemed inappropriate in the UK if the prisoner is a sex offender, has a history of domestic violence, or if his offence involves children.

I have talked with xxxx about it and we would suggest that you perhaps contact the Probation Service, who have all the information about offenders and links with Social Services, Child Protection agencies etc. They would probably know more than we do or have a link you could follow up.

Good luck - xxxxxx"

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