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To start a thread about the new uc and how it affects entitlement to tax credit.

(201 Posts)
morethanpotatoprints Tue 09-Oct-12 22:23:35

Just as the title suggests.

How many people actually know how this will affect their personal circumstances?
Millions of workers will be affected and so many people will lose out.
This is not welfare cuts for the unemployed its anybody not working for 35 hours earning the minimum wage.

monkeysbignuts Wed 10-Oct-12 09:34:23

morethan thankfully we have an excellent accountant. I am hoping she can see a way around it for us too, maybe getting a company car which incures p11D costs as that's taxable income could be a way of boosting wages?!
Stupid toffs are making it hard for everyone but the bourgeois for want of a better word! Talk about look after your own

ZeldaUpNorth Wed 10-Oct-12 09:42:03

Just done the calculator and we'd have to earn and extra £182.46 a week to not qualify for workfare. (thats if dp stays the way he is half/half)

FrothyOM Wed 10-Oct-12 09:43:24


Poorer working mums trying to earn more for their children by working longer hours will be hit hard by the new Universal Credit, despite government pledges to make work pay, new research by Save the Children shows.

The charity has found that 150,000 of the UK’s poorest single working mums could lose up to £68 a week under the new Universal Credit, pushing a quarter of a million children deeper into poverty. The flagship welfare reforms will also hurt "second earners" - most of whom are women - with some families losing up to £1800 per year.

There are 3.5 million children living in poverty in the UK, one of the highest figures in Europe. The majority of these children come from working households, while evidence from overseas shows that supporting mothers in work drives down child poverty.

Female unemployment has recently topped 1m, while mothers already struggling to support their children have suffered cuts to childcare support, child benefit and tax credits. A new poll by Save the Children and Netmums found that 56% of mums said the main thing stopping them from taking a job or making them consider giving up work is the cost of childcare.

“Universal Credit will help some families, but mums working hard to stay above the breadline are its big blind spot. It's incredibly hard bringing up 3 kids on £370 a week - losing almost a fifth of that will push many families over the edge,” said Save the Children CEO Justin Forsyth. "The government must make sure mums who want to work keep more of their incomes and get more support with childcare. Otherwise we’ll see fewer women in the workplace and more children growing up in poverty.”

Universal Credit, which begins to replace the current benefits and tax credit system from October 2013, will leave many families better off but will also make a total of 1.1 million families with children poorer.

Ahead of the budget on 21st March, Save the Children is launching its Mums United campaign in collaboration with Gingerbread, the Daycare Trust and Netmums to make work pay for mothers who want to work their way out of poverty. It makes three main calls to Chancellor George Osborne for his next Budget:

- Ensure single working mums keep more of their incomes before losing benefits, as they are the only earner in the family.

- Ensure second earners keep first £2000 of their earnings without losing any benefits, as main breadwinners do;

- Increase support for childcare costs for low income families from the current level of 70% to 80%, to make sure mums are not priced out of work.

“Too many children in this country are going without basics like hot meals or proper clothes because their parents can’t earn enough. We know from other countries that supporting mums who want to work takes children out of poverty, so we need a system which offers mothers that choice. Unless we see movement on childcare and benefits for struggling working mums in this budget, it could be too late for hundreds of thousands of children,” said Mr Forsyth.

The main findings of the Save the Children research are:

- Lack of funding means that many poor parents trying to work more will lose out under Universal Credit, pushing more children into poverty. The majority of children in poverty live in working households;

- A typical single parent with three children, working full time on or around the minimum wage, could be as much as £3500 per year (£68 per week) worse off;

- A single parent with two children, working full time on or around the minimum wage, could be as much as £2500 per year (£48 per week) worse off;

- As well as hitting single parents working longer hours, the new system will support single earner couple families at the expense of couples where both parents work part-time on a low income. A typical low income couple with three children where one parent works 24 hours a week and the other works a few hours on low pay could lose as much as £1800 a year (£35 per week) under the new system;

- The number of people having to work part-time but wanting full-time work has recently reached a record 1.3 million;

To join Save the Children’s Mums United campaign or find out more, please go to and sign your name. To watch mums joining the campaign, follow #MumsUnited on Twitter.

For further information, including interviews with case studies and spokespeople, please contact: Oliver Courtney on 0207 012 6469 or out of hours on 07831 650409.

Notes to editors:

- Universal Credit will streamline the current benefits and tax credit systems into one system. Its impact on family incomes will be complex and vary by family type and size, and by housing and childcare costs. Many low income working families will see increased incomes and improved work incentives, which is very welcome news for those in poverty. However under this top line picture there are worrying exceptions, with some hard-working parents - especially mums - being hit hard. Overall, 2.8 million households will have higher entitlements, 2.7 million households will see no change and 2 million households including 1.1 million households with children will have lower entitlements, according to the Department for Work and Pensions impact assessment of November 2011.

- A single mum who is £68 a week worse off has three children and has earnings from work of around £242 a week (equivalent to working 35 hours a week just above the minimum wage). Her gross income after housing costs is £370 under the current system and £302 under Universal Credit. The calculations are based on a family with average local authority rent and average pre school childcare costs.

- Across the country there are now over one million women unemployed, up from 700,000 in September 2008, with a further 1.3million women classed as economically inactive (as opposed to counted as being unemployed) but wanting a job. 2011 was the first year since 1996 that the Job Seekers Allowance (JSA) claimant count for women was consistently over half a million.

- Amongst couple families only 5% of children in families where both parents work full time and 8% of children where one parent works full-time and one parent works part-time are in poverty. This compares with 29% of children in households where one parent works full-time and the other parent doesn’t work. In spite of this the Government is prioritising support for single earner households at the expense of second earners, at a time when full-time work isn’t obtainable for many households.

- Female employment and child poverty are inextricably linked. In countries where child poverty is lower there tend to be more women in work

- The Government has said it will ensure no one is worse off under the new system in cash terms by making extra payments to those whose entitlement under Universal Credit is lower than under the current system. However, this protection will only be provided to current claimants and for a time limited period. Details of cash protection have yet to be fully set out. If the circumstances of the claimants change (what this means has not been defined) then they may lose this protection. New claimants will not be protected.

- Some working poor single parents will be better off under the new system because Universal Credit is likely to boost the incomes of single parents working less than 16 hours a week on low pay. However, there will be less of an incentive for this group to increase the number of hours they work to more than 16 compared to the current system.

domesticgodless Wed 10-Oct-12 11:16:10

flaming heck it is incredible isn't it Frothy.

Work full time at low wage and you lose money.

Take a part time job and get credit EXCEPT that you're only considered to be unavailable for full time work until your child is FIVE.

After that you are supposed to get a 35 hour per week job or rather two jobs. At 90 MINUTES commuting distance. And you will have to pay 30% of childcare costs which at current rate is a fair old proportion of your weekly income if not all of it in some areas.

It's insanity and it will lead to poverty on a scale we have not seen since the post war years.

domesticgodless Wed 10-Oct-12 11:18:11

I am surprised none of the personal responsibility pimps who hang out on here have weighed in to say that it's a lone parent's fault for having had children on her own (even if she didn't) and that the State shouldn't be paying any childcare for anyone. Etc ad nauseam.

I think the poster above who talked about Victorian maids is right. The poor will be expected to stop reproducing. Hehe good luck with that one. Especially once the abortion limit is increased and the NHS is privatised so affordable contraception is no longer available.

Mother and baby homes and workhouses here we come.

thekidsrule Wed 10-Oct-12 11:20:30


thekidsrule Wed 10-Oct-12 11:21:23

and as i said on another thread it will be paid monthly

pumpkinsweetie Wed 10-Oct-12 11:24:48

Exactly Domestic things are not looking good.
We will be banned from reproducing yet they are lowering the abortion limit!
If the Nhs is eventually privatised there will be no contraception.
With hardly no money to live off, hardly no jobs to take people will be having more sex-sex without contraception =babies!
Workhouses will be bought back, homeless families on the increase!

It will be just like victorian times just like a pp said, unless of course you are loaded!
Well if the world ends cone december maybe it will be a good thing as we are doomed with Cameronangry

morethanpotatoprints Wed 10-Oct-12 11:39:04


Its an early thread, the responsibility girls will be along soon. They make me angry

thekidsrule Wed 10-Oct-12 11:54:36

i thought single parents had to work 24hrs for UC,tha was what i was lead to believe

im stuffed then if is 35hrs

does anybody know the criteria for each group,im feed up of looking for it confused

domesticgodless Wed 10-Oct-12 13:02:33

Indeede pumpkin. We can expect the return of Victorian morality- for the poor only.

The rich will be able to do whatever the heck they want. As usual.

domesticgodless Wed 10-Oct-12 13:03:11

thekids I think it is going to be 35 hours when child is over 5 (!!!) but need to check that.

FrothyOM Wed 10-Oct-12 13:05:01

I'm confused about what hours single parents will be expected to work, anyone know?

FrothyOM Wed 10-Oct-12 13:06:15

35 hours with 90 mins commuting time plus trying to get them to some kind of childcare with no car. That will be me fucked.

OptimisticPessimist Wed 10-Oct-12 13:11:53

I thought lone parents whose youngest child is aged 5-12 were going to be able to do part time work, the same as it is now? 35 hours plus 90 minutes commute is insane shock

FrothyOM Wed 10-Oct-12 13:20:30

I don't know that. I hope someone can tell me that's not true as it will be impossible without being able to drive.

Vagaceratops Wed 10-Oct-12 13:28:41

How do you stop claiming WTC? Do you just ring them up and tell them you no longer want to claim?

domesticgodless Wed 10-Oct-12 13:55:08

Optimistic you may be right for now but I think the limit is going to be pushed back. Need to check...

Gingerbread website will have full details.

Still insane for lone parent of a 13 year old to have to do 35 hour week plus 90 min commute.

domesticgodless Wed 10-Oct-12 13:56:44

@Frothy it's insane isn't it.

So much of this depends on JobCentrePlus staff volition. It is a mandate for sanctioning, and soon a 'three strikes and you're out' policy is also going to be introduced, meaning that three MINOR infractions such as missing or being late for an appointment, 'refusing' a job or being sacked from one will mean up to THREE YEARS without benefits.

domesticgodless Wed 10-Oct-12 14:05:44

I can't see anything in the DWP outline about p/t work being allowed for lone parents of 'older' children (eg over 5)

maybe someone else can

domesticgodless Wed 10-Oct-12 14:06:24

well actually bear in mind it will be 'allowed' without sanction if you earn enough per hour (ie above minimum wage) not to trigger the lower-earnings threshold.

Wigeon Wed 10-Oct-12 14:07:08

Do people think this would be a good topic for a webchat? Maybe with someone knowledgeable from Citizens Advice? (think anyone from DWP would be eaten alive!)

Also, thought people might like to know that the Work and Pensions Select Committee in Parliament (a cross-party group of MPs) is looking at Universal Credit in one of their inquiries at the moment,here.

domesticgodless Wed 10-Oct-12 14:08:58

from the UC document:

as announced in the Budget, lone parents whose youngest child has reached the age of five will need to actively seek work unless they are disabled or have
a health condition which prevents them working, or are a carer; and
c. couples with children whose youngest child has reached the age of five, and where neither partner is disabled or has a health condition which prevents them working or is a carer, will need to make a joint claim to Jobseeker’s Allowance, requiring both partners to actively seek work.

absolutely nothing I can see about enabling lone parents or indeed working couples to find employment fitting around school hours. This despite the utter lack of affordable childcare.

FrothyOM Wed 10-Oct-12 14:10:15

If you are a carer, or you have an illness or disability that means you cannot work, then you will also not have to look for work
If you have a child under the age of 13 you can limit your availability for work to their normal school hours. If your youngest child is 13 or older, then the number of hours you need to be available for work will depend on your individual circumstances, but should take into account your responsibilities as a carer.

Ok, that's from gingerbread. Seems LP's with a child under thirteen can limit their availability for work to school hours.

Kids of thirteen plus can look after themselves whilst their lone parents work long hours now, is that even legal?

Wigeon Wed 10-Oct-12 14:11:15

There is some information on the "Family Money" section of Mumsnethere, although not v v detailed.

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