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To ask you your thoughts on Internet piracy?

(39 Posts)
EricNorthmansFangBanger Mon 08-Oct-12 20:28:49

So people who use The Pirate Bay, for example?

I've been tasked with doing an advertising campaign for a section of society who are looked upon negatively. I've chosen Internet piracy and I need to reposition that section of society and portray them in a good light to the general public.

I'm trying to brain storm an advertising strategy at the minute, but I'd really appreciate knowing what people think of people who do this?

TIA

<Hands out free wine to all>

otchayaniye Mon 08-Oct-12 20:34:41

erm, piracy isn't what people think of, in that you can make a cogent argument that it's can be positive (intoduces consumers to more markets) and isn't purely cannibalising dvd sales. the downloads aren't often at the expense of someone actually buying a dvd. . just as fugazzi handbags aren't eating into the market for 1000 pound handbags, and actually perform a grey market advertising for the real deal.

and there's plenty on piratebay and isohunt

ParsleyTheLioness Mon 08-Oct-12 20:34:48

Well, its naughty isn't it. I'm not familiar with Pirate Bay, but can only liken it to years ago when someone would buy a tape or LP (yes, I'm old) and we would all tape it. Lots of stuff on the sleeves about piracy killing home music, but the fact is, we didn't have the money to buy it, so it was not buy it or tape it, but tape it or not have it, iuswim. Easy to be more judgemental when you have the money.

otchayaniye Mon 08-Oct-12 20:35:14

sorry, plenty that isn't illegal

Indith Mon 08-Oct-12 20:35:16

Well I used to download stuff back when I was a student and broadband was all new and shiny and novel and all around me everyone shared everything on the network. But now I don't, I feel it is wrong. At the end of the day it is theft pure and simple and I don't steal things. A lot of people who download illegally seem to try to justify it with some speach about rich corporations, record companies ripping people off etc or in the case of TV about horrible rich companies not airing stuff in the UK soon enough so giving them no choice but I doubt these people would go into a shop and nick the dvd so I find it pretty hypocritical to nick it in digital format.

EricNorthmansFangBanger Mon 08-Oct-12 20:51:00

Thank you smile

Personally, as someone who has used the pirate bay before I do think it has it's positives. I know many people who use it mainly for getting TV series early and in my case, I have generally gone on to buy the series on DVD when it's been released anyway. I'm just too impatient to wait for it to come out here, especially in terms of True Blood blush

Currently reading about The Pirate Party UK and their viewpoint seems interesting. The more I'm reading about this the harder it seems, in terms of trying to put a positive spin on something that is essentially illegal.

ripsishere Mon 08-Oct-12 20:54:10

I don't know about Pirate Bay me hearty, I do know how much I missed the Pongo DVDs when we moved to Switzerland from Bangkok.
IMO, big companies should have a slush fund to cover this sort of thing. Either that, or reduce the prices of legal DVDs and get them out earlier.

sayanything Mon 08-Oct-12 21:06:04

I would say that downloading music is theft, to be honest - there are so many ways now to get a hold of music cheaply (e.g., Spotify) that suggesting that you're not having an impact on sales is a bit iffy. But but but, I have no compunction about streaming or downloading TV series because a. I absolutely hate the fact that studios split us up into geographical regions in the age of the internet and b. the series are usually streamed for free on the studios' websites and the only reason I can't access the stream is that I'm not in the US. TV studios are clinging on to an outdated business model because it suits them and choose to ignore technological reality - the sooner they sort out international IP rights the better. But I do buy the DVDs when they come out.

sayanything Mon 08-Oct-12 21:07:12

Goodness, that was incoherent. My apologies, DS is 4wks and is on a 90-minute feeding schedule (of his choosing, of course).

otchayaniye Mon 08-Oct-12 21:07:39

when i lived in asia it was clear that the main consumers of fakes and pirating were not consumers of full price dvds, bags etc. they are two rather separate markets and the producers know this, so loud bleating about it is disingenuous. plus it can raise their respective brands.

now fake surgical equipment and medicines i can get huffy about

IneedAsockamnesty Mon 08-Oct-12 21:08:36

well i expect if your a mega serious gangsta type person its very possitive due to the serious wads of cash it raises that can then be used to traffic well pretty much anything.

GalaxyDefender Mon 08-Oct-12 21:13:29

Putting aside hardcore torrenters, most people pirate things that they can't afford or that aren't widely available anyway. So while industry bigwigs complain about losing income, they aren't really, because the money would never have gone into their pockets to begin with, as otchayaniye said above.

Using myself as an example, I tend to pirate stuff you can't get anymore, like ISOs of old video games. I would love to have somewhere I could go to buy these things (to benefit the people who make things I love) but because they're not in print anymore the prices are ridiculous if any even exist to buy at all.

Many of my friends pirate American TV shows that they otherwise would have no way of watching for months on end sometimes. I totally agree that in this day and age putting restrictions due to geographical location is petty and old-fashioned.

As for music, I quite like the strategy used by a lot of Youtube musicians - put your music up somewhere for free. If people like it, they will buy it. And it's true, I own several CDs that I wouldn't have bought if I hadn't been able to hear them first by downloading them for free. But big record labels won't sign up to an idea like that, because they can't get their head around the idea that it might GAIN money rather than lose it.

EricNorthmansFangBanger Mon 08-Oct-12 21:33:28

Thank you all again grin

Galaxy - My husband does that too, for old video games you just can't really get anymore. It's very nostalgic for him and he would actually buy them for a reasonable price if he could.

The thing that's annoying for some people is when you've already bought something before but the original is lost/damaged etc etc. my husband gave an example of the Foundation series by Asimov (?). Once upon a time he had the whole series, inevitably lost them and wanted them recently for his kindle. I think he said it cost like £8 for one book on kindle when he looked. In his eyes, the author is dead and he's already bought the book once. Maybe £1 is more reasonable a price but you just can't get the books for that. So why shouldn't he download it from somewhere else? I suppose the same could be said for DVD's etc.

Maybe they need to think about changing the laws and I especially agree on the whole 'you are not in America' thing. Highly annoying. Maybe the focus shouldn't be on the people who download things on the Internet but on the laws etc being updated?

catgirl1976 Mon 08-Oct-12 22:10:32

I don't see people who download illegally or facilitate it in a negative light tbh.

In fact I used to download illegally loads when Napster was around and only don't now as I don't have time or know any good sites

scoobywoo Tue 09-Oct-12 00:02:45

As a classical musician, I am well aware of how the increase in pirating has reduced the music industry to its knees. It is a very sad situation now that a fraction of the music making is now going on, being released etc. Having moved on from CDs, I hate to think how it is going to affect books, films, newspapers, TV. How long until Sky goes bust and the Premiership dissolves? Why would anyone go to a cinema for £10 when they can see it at home? Why buy a book when everyone's hacked Kindle has every book ever printed on it? JK Rowling didn't start writing Harry Potter for kicks. If no-one pays for culture then we won't have any culture.

Anyone who steals cultural works is kidding themselves that they have the answers in "a new business model". If you really believed that, then you'd be producing your own cultural works, licensing them freely and letting the market decide (or democracy, heaven forbid!). Those that take and don't give are selfish, and that includes those that "just" download occasional TV series. Get real.

scoobywoo Tue 09-Oct-12 00:09:21

I think many people are sympathetic to piracy - the "victimless" crime. It's like speeding, or buying the Sun. Pretty widespread, and if someone is against it, they tend to be in fringe groups.

So if I were tasked with changing people's perceptions on a disliked section of society, I'd try something a bit more controversial. Say homeless. Or benefit seekers. Fat people. Paedophiles. Sexist women. Hard core right wingers, even.

scarletforya Tue 09-Oct-12 00:19:13

I'm with catgirl, I don't see people who download illegally (everyone!) in a negative light. I find it hard to feel bad for music industry fat cats and such.

otchayaniye Tue 09-Oct-12 07:53:39

scoobywoo, i frequently buy dvds of films i've downloaded and i take my children to the cinema. i don't want to listen to Bach and Schubert at 190 mps so buy cds, and i don't want to watch a film by michael haneke with my husband on a sodding computer when i have a big sony bravia. so i buy lots i wantto keep and download plenty of filler i watch as i co-sleep and feed to sleep my baby.

and i buy books but have ipad versions of alla my favourite cookbooks, and no, much as i love claudian roden i'm not going to buy her books twice!

Acumens100 Tue 09-Oct-12 08:21:25

People that download music tend to buy more music than the average punter. The biggest, most dedicated downloaders of telly are media fans, and they spend astounding amounts on IP and merchandising. Harry Potter fans, wow, they are reknowned for having, like, eight editions of each book and all the films and all the editions. But they still download the pdfs, because they want it on their phone while they're nerding with their friends.

It's much easier to download something than buy it. They make it super hard to buy anything, and then make up all these stupid rules. Imagine buying a jumper and them saying you can only wear it upstairs. Or an apple and them saying you're not allowed to make apple pie. I have actually ending up downloading software I've bought, but the DRM and the security was so extreme, I couldn't use the legal copy. So bugger that for a game of soldiers.

I do actually license some of my cultural works under the creative commons, and I have coded at least a hundred thousand dollars worth of software under FLOSS. I also sell some under copyright. That's not uncommon. I know a lot lot lot of people that do a mix, and they all download.

I don't feel sorry for multimillionaires and record industry parasites and I'm not taking their cash anyway. For me, the choice is download or don't see/hear/use it. It only makes a difference to me, not them. They don't get my money either way, as I am poor.

When I do spend some of my limited money on IP I make sure it works to get me more of that product - so on gigs, self-published records, gift boxsets for other people etc.

Acumens100 Tue 09-Oct-12 08:23:46

(Also downloading the latest Dr Who does not make money for gangsters. That is a preposterous lie and I don't understand why anyone would believe it. HOW? How could they make money? It's free!)

redlac Tue 09-Oct-12 08:40:54

Situation is getting better as TV execs realise that people won't wait 6 months til something is aired in the UK - this week saw Homeland return on channel 4 less than a week from being aired in the US - that's the way it should be in this digital age! Dexter however started in us last week but won't be aired in UK til next year - guess which one I will be downloading?

notsofrownieface Tue 09-Oct-12 08:50:04

I generally do not think that people who download films/tvshows/music on the hooky are viewed negatively by their peers I say this as a 27 year old woman whose friends use streaming sites (maybe its a generation thing), they will be looked down on by the film/tv/music industry.

I do not download however I do stream tv shows, and this is shows that will take months if not years to come over here. Shows like new CSI, Family Guy, and I have watched the first season of Girls even before it touches down here.

But I will inevitably go out and buy the box sets when they eventually get released here.

I cant really comment on music because I generally do not listen to much and when I do it is on youtube. However I do believe that Piracy has not killed the music industry, the music industry killed the music industry

Snorbs Tue 09-Oct-12 09:04:18

I don't download pirated stuff as, frankly, I'm too worried about being caught but I do have a small amount of sympathy for at least some of those who do.

One benefit can be simple format shifting. Say you've bought The Avengers on Blu-Ray and you want to watch it on your lightweight laptop that has neither Blu-Ray or DVD drive. Your only legal option is to try to buy it (again) as a digital download but that can be unreliable - some will lock the digital copy to a single PC and if that PC dies then, well, tough luck.

Or you can go to the Pirate Bay and download a ripped version of The Avengers straight on to your laptop. Job done.

Another benefit is removal of copy protection. On many PC games the copy protection mechanism is unwieldy (eg, relying on an Internet connection at all times you're playing the game, or insisting that the game CD is in the drive) and often unreliable (eg, relying on the game manufacturer maintaining their Internet-based licensing service. Such services are not guaranteed forever). By contrast, go to Pirate Bay, download a cracked version and >boom< all those hassles go away.

Paiviaso Tue 09-Oct-12 09:27:54

My main form of piracy is music download.

Without music piracy, I would have not discovered most of the music artists I currently listen to. A lot of them are foreign artists, or not very well known artists. I can not hear them on the radio, see them on TV or live, and will not come across their CD in the music shop.

I tend to randomly download albums from artists I've never heard of, and most of the time I listen to a few tracks and think, "eh" but sometimes I hit the jackpot and find an artist I love. The existence of Spotify now allows you to do this legally, but Spotify has a limited amount of music available on it and so is no where near as good as the illegal method.

I have gone on to buy CDs from some of these artists I've discovered from websites that import foreign albums, and I also have bought some concert DVDs. I imported over 30 albums and singles from my favourite artist! But I can't afford to buy CDs for all the artists I like. And now that I'm a bit older, I consider CDs a very luxury expense and do not buy them anymore. I am thinking of asking for some for Christmas though.

Hope this helps you a bit!

bowerbird Tue 09-Oct-12 11:14:29

I'm with scooby.

And for all you idiots people who prattle on about "industry fatcats", spare a thought for those a little further down the food chain. It's not the fatcats you have to worry about. Artists are not getting paid. Musicians, novelists, composers, film directors, cinematographers, scriptwriters, poets. So you have a situation where the only people who can afford to be artists are those with a private income.

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