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to be fed up of George sodding Osbourne and his Knobbish Ideas

(1000 Posts)
avivabeaver Mon 08-Oct-12 11:04:43

The economy is proving harder to fix than he first thought

Solution- suggest cutting £10bn from the benefits budget and "limit the number of children people can claim for". So- are you supposed to choose your 2 favourite and just feed them then? Or what?

Brycie Thu 11-Oct-12 14:47:04

Duchesse: sounds like a capitalists' wet dream? Labour did it. So it's partly my fault, and yours too if you voted Labour.

MiniTheMinx Thu 11-Oct-12 14:41:18

I think he felt justified to claim for the same reason he feels justified to rule over us, he feels he has the right because he is an entitled twunt.

If we want to avoid having a political elite that are out of touch then the first act should be to take Eton down, brick by brick and every other institution that perpetuates class privilege.

ThingsThatGoBumpInTheNight Thu 11-Oct-12 14:33:05

Maybe he wasn't a millionaire at the time?

I think they're out of touch with the general public and making kneejerk decisions based on areas of society least able to speak up for themselves, influence decisions, or complain.

They all need to spend time in the shoes of the people they are attacking in such an aggressive manner simply because 'they can'

MiniTheMinx Thu 11-Oct-12 14:27:47

I have just had a read of the blog that was linked, Cameron claimed DLA for his son. Did he need to claim benefits? I'd like to know what justification he would use for a millionaire claiming benefits.

merrymouse Thu 11-Oct-12 14:26:38

Even if the entire global recession were caused by personally by Gordon Brown, the policies announced by the conservatives don't make sense. I can't see how the replacement of WTC with UC or changes to DLA will help the economy or help anybody to strive.

I would be very grateful if somebody could point out the 'pro-strive' policies as I am finding them difficult to spot. All those years planning in opposition and 2.5 years in government and this is their best shot?

domesticgodless Thu 11-Oct-12 14:06:59

Peachy about 1 in 3 right wing posters on here are claiming to 'work with' benefit claimants and 'the feckless poor' and I don't believe a bloody word of any of it!

domesticgodless Thu 11-Oct-12 14:03:58

Frothy it's a comment I just read on one of the Grauniad's political articles. I think it was the one on Grayling's hilarious shoot-a-burglar law. I just read it and it stuck in my mind.

Peachy Thu 11-Oct-12 13:52:16

Tully if you work in benefits why don't you know the cap on benefits has been brought in and due soon? confused

I am not stupid, I an understand why people would look and be resentful. I have been a mother working 2 jobs and a mother working none. Nonetheless I can also show empathy- having a strong work ethic had nothing but pain for me once I had to become a carer- a lot of guilt came with that! Being a striver- let's see, when DH was made redundant he turned a hobby business into a business that is growing, but more slowly EVERY time this Government scare people; he is also a student- FT, last year. I am a Carer but have also managed to acquire an Access qual, a degree and now almost finished my MA- all very slowly, part time, and some not funded.

I think we are strivers.

So how come the cuts will hit us? Why is ds3's tax credit disability payment being halved? Why is si that PIP drops the clause for constant supervision so we will not get PIP to help with him when he turns 16 (asd, severely aggressive) but neither will I be able to ask him to leave at 18 due to the proposed HB cuts? We are taking a hammering left right and centre here and it's getting harder to cope. I don't even have a washing machine any more, because new uni finance rules (for DH) mean his loan payment has been delayed for at least another month, the washer broke and we're having to use the other income to pay for his petrol just to attend lectures. Not an easy loss with 4 chidlren (NONE born on benefits)- 3 disabled, one with a full gamut of school rugby kits.

I know we need cuts, so why are the benefits that are pointless- yet again I will refer you to heating top ups for people living in warmer claimates- not being targeted? They want me to believe this is not ideological, they can cut those! Don't need to means test- shove the amount on pension tax credits and it will self target quite effectively.

But until their own- and pensioners really are key Tory voters- feel some of this then it's ridiculous to ask anyone else to feel elss that targeted! I think I have some part time work lined up for the end of next year as a result of my studies, I am praying we still have a roof over our heads by then.

FrothyOM Thu 11-Oct-12 13:51:27

Who is talking about labour camps? Link?

I agree btw

duchesse Thu 11-Oct-12 13:48:34

Sounds like a capitalist's wet dream to me, Brycie.

domesticgodless Thu 11-Oct-12 13:47:57

Whose 'fault' (what a simplistic way to look at the gradual decline of this country into a non-developed one...) the NHS 'cuts' are (and it's full scale privatisation actually, as well as cuts) is the red herring.

The fact is that in future, when you are old, and as your children grow old, there will be no public health care provision any more. Get ill and even if you are on a reasonable income, you will die broke, as in the dear old USA. Insurance is a vastly expensive and unreliable method of providing public health care.

The combination of that with the removal of pretty much all state provision ffor everything (which will happen under all future neoliberal governments, including Labour ones) means that we will be in an unprecedented situation. An affluent country reduced to the living standards of most Latin American and Asian countries (with a small 'middle' class and stinking rich top few percent). How on earth the probable social unrest which will occur is going to be managed I have no idea and neither do our frankly pathetic ruling class.

Someone on the Grauniad is talking about internment camps and labour camps and I expect he may be right. Anyone who's read Margaret Atwood's recent dystopias may also have a fairly accurate forward view of it.

Brycie Thu 11-Oct-12 13:47:07

I don't think you understand PFI contracts Duchesse. In seventy years time your grandchildren will still be paying £70 to have a lightbulb changed on a ward because of what Labour did.

duchesse Thu 11-Oct-12 13:45:23

Brycie, what a frankly ridiculous comment. Round here at least, all the schools and hospitals that were rebuilt were done so frankly because they were crumbling. This is something that ought to have been done at least 15 years sooner than it was (ie under the previous Conservative govt). Unfortunately the Con-Lib coalition came in just in time to prevent our nearest comprehensive building programme from going ahead- this means that the 55 year old pre-fab school is now going to have to accommodate up to 50% more pupils over the next 15 years in the same derelect buildings. As it is the previous administration did it in the way they thought would be cheapest (and incidentally the way the Cons would probably have done it if they'd had the guts or the inclination to do any investment in infrastructure). I personally have my doubts about the cost-effectiveness of PPFI but there you go.

Building this kind of infrastructure costs money. Are we to say that because it is expensive, it should never be done? How stupid.

tully67 Thu 11-Oct-12 13:16:47

I work in benefit system and my colleagues are interviewing people in their 40's who have never worked a day in their life - through choice. Why should this be? I am not naive and I know that lots of people cannot work. The Welfare system should be for people who cannot work or who protect people who have been made unemployed until they find work again. Why should people chose not to work and not contribute to the economy? If there was a cap on benefits, if they received clothes and food vouchers, if they didn't get paid for new children they have while on benefits (as happens in some states in the USA I believe) maybe they would not be so cosy and would chose to work. I could discuss this all day but I must be get ready for work so I can provide for my family.

Brycie Thu 11-Oct-12 11:20:26

I think the NHS cuts thing is a red herring. The problems in the NHS are rooted in what Labour did, ie taking the credit and not paying for it (literally). They're still going on about how marvelous they were, building al lthese hospitlas. And now blaming the Tories for cuts when it's their policies that cost the Trusts such a sod of a lot of money in the first place. That's just hypocrisy And lying, basically.

Viviennemary Thu 11-Oct-12 11:17:53


Viviennemary Thu 11-Oct-12 11:17:37

And who gave out those GP contracts allowing GP's to earn huge amoungs. Couldn't possibly be labour could it?

Brycie Thu 11-Oct-12 10:56:44

Ratherbeonthepiste: as someone who disapproves of some of the cuts, and approves of others, I will tell you how from my perspective.

It's through taking a longer term view, and believing that the short term pain will be less than the longer term pain. Basically.

Re: the NHS - many health trusts are running out of money because of ludicrous private finance contracts signed under Labour which your children and grandchildren will still be paying for. That should be taken out of the equation entirely, in my view.

RatherBeOnThePiste Thu 11-Oct-12 09:38:05

HumanCatapault That's it - How can those in favour of these welfare cuts actually be thinking of those who will be affected? These cuts are damaging and dangerous, and affect real people. Let's thrust more into poverty, make more homeless, cut the NHS... on and on, and all the time not think about those affected. And this blinkered view must surely be better than the alternative, because that would mean they just don't care sad

sunflowersfollowthesun Thu 11-Oct-12 08:38:37

Well Dawndonna, it certainly appears that many Labour supporters could do with a visit to the optician for removal of their rose coloured leftie spectacles.
Being bored by it doesn't make it any less true!
There is and was a global recession – but we should have been in a much better position to deal with it and would have been if Blair/Brown hadn't spent mountains of borrowed money buying votes with non existant jobs and pretending they'd built all the new schools and hospitals, which in fact were built on even more borrowed money (PFI) that our grandchildren will still be paying off for generations to come.

KnottyLocks Thu 11-Oct-12 07:53:14

New figures to chew on:

93% of new housing benefit claims are from people in work.

monkeysbignuts Thu 11-Oct-12 07:41:20

* Give that the economic problems are present in half of Europe and the US, I really don't see how the Labour Party can be blamed. That is just ridiculous. *

well said creamteas!
Its Tory drivel blaming labour for a global economic crisis, running our economy into the ground bollox

Dawndonna Thu 11-Oct-12 07:40:45

I'm so bored with the 'it's labour what done it' attitude. Is nobody able to read on here?
For heaven's sake, grow up, Labour did not and could not have possibly caused recession in the whole of Europe and the US. Ergo, it wasn't Labour, it was a global recession.

TheHumancatapult Thu 11-Oct-12 07:34:16

See some of my friends that are for welfare cuts then say no we don't mean people like you ( full time carer and am also paraplegic with all the extras that comes with continuance issues etc also have a problem with my shoulders dislocating so cant really self propell )

But are shocked when I point out all these new cuts and changes are hitting people like me !! Makes then think a bit

ThingsThatGoBumpInTheNight Thu 11-Oct-12 01:15:19

Trouble is when people have done nothing but bring up children (and you don't have a baby to get extra money ffs you get 'given' hardly anything) they feel as if they would be good for nothing else especially when you have to write a cv and all you could put on it is 'been a mum for such and such years'

Coupled with the lack of affordable childcare and jobs with the hours that most care covers (FI i could not do shiftwork but would be more than happy to work days, those jobs are few, so will probably end up working PT)

I have worked and seen most of my wages go on childcare, had DS1 as a 'latchkey kid' and will not be doing the same with DS2.

I did enjoy working though, it gives you adults to talk to and the sense of achievement that only working for your money can give smile

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