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To think that the British work is insidious

(132 Posts)
Silibilimili Fri 05-Oct-12 21:01:40

And petty and full of cronies...

Just that.

Silibilimili Sat 06-Oct-12 17:51:36

yes, you can PM me.

amillionyears Sat 06-Oct-12 17:49:14

ooh,coming across as arrogant and unapproachable.
If that is what people see and think,even though it is not true,that is not going to help you at all.
I you said you didnt want to change character.
It sounds like you need to change the public perception of yourself so they can understand and see the real you.
The classic book for this thread is "How to win friends and influence people".
I havent read all of it,but I think you would find it useful if you havent read it already.

amillionyears Sat 06-Oct-12 17:40:05

Will pm you shortly.
Can I ask some questions please?

You say you are emotional.What sorts of things have you got emotional at work about,that maybe other work colleagues didnt get emotional over?
What changes have you suggested be implemented that have not been taken up.
I think you said you moan.Have fellow colleagues commented on this.
Are you British? Have you worked abroad and are now working in the UK,and have suggested your work place does some things that you have gleaned from working overseas.
What age are you? Dont answer any if this if you dont want to.
Might they think you may want to start a family soon,so are possibly discriminating against you.
Do you meet up with them socially at all.
Do you say to them from time to time that you feel like leaving?

Fairyliz Sat 06-Oct-12 17:33:17

Another problem is that none of us really know what other people think of us and that can vary from person to person. Eg you think I am direct someone else thinks I am rude. I work ith someone who thinks she is really hard working; I think she is a lazy cow who spends too much time making everything into a drama instead of just getting on with it. But who is right?

Silibilimili Sat 06-Oct-12 17:31:41

I agree holey. It is holding me back.

I am not idealistic. Not emotional but Passionate and quiet. so tend to come across as arrogant or unapproachable although I am friendly.

HoleyGhost Sat 06-Oct-12 17:25:02

The qualities that help make you great at your job might make you a poor candidate for promotion. You are idealistic, emotional and direct. Not qualities many people seek in a manager*.

* assuming 'direct ' means tactless. It generally does.

HoleyGhost Sat 06-Oct-12 17:20:26

IME, whining is even less acceptable in US work culture.

adeucalione Sat 06-Oct-12 16:33:29

Not according to the Economist although the article is eight years old...can't imagine there has been any improvement in the last few years.

Silibilimili Sat 06-Oct-12 15:38:11




Silibilimili Sat 06-Oct-12 15:22:06

ques agree and can relate to all that you say. However, I thought we were meritocratic. We definitely are not. That's what I can't get my wad around. And comparing to the worst of the lot and feeling good is not really what I want to do either.

American culture is merit based. Right?

CassandraApprentice Sat 06-Oct-12 15:00:07

Definetely do something. My Dad is a lovely man but spent 30 + years in an office that was back stabbing and very political - he was a work horse but found himself blamed for other mistakes. He was made reduant 55 + and is now a very bitter person.

Having said that he has the opposite of charm - he makes the most innocent remarks and people take offense its not obvious why.

My first work place was like this as well - I did the bare minimum amount of time and left for somewhere better and got more money with it.

quesadilla Sat 06-Oct-12 14:57:41

It depends what organization and what industry. Its certainly true that a lot of "desirable" industries (journalism, investment banking, advertising, charity sector, civil service) are riddled with cronyism and basically its hard to get in without contacts and impossible past a certain point without a large degree of arse-licking.
But in all honesty I don't think Britain is worse than most places. A good friend of mine emigrated to Italy and then moved back because she had totally lost faith in the possibility that her children would ever get good jobs because they weren't Italian/didn't have right family connections. Britain isn't the meritocracy it likes to think it is but anecdotally I think a lot of the "latin" economies are far, far worse.
I don't think all industries are like this though.

Silibilimili Sat 06-Oct-12 13:40:55

dil, yes I have. I am comfortable in that culture.

DilysPrice Sat 06-Oct-12 13:25:40

Have you ever worked for the French OP?

adeucalione Sat 06-Oct-12 13:19:53

I certainly wouldn't want someone who agreed with everything I said, but someone who gets the job done with a smile on their face and doesn't rattle the feathers of their colleagues unnecessarily.

There are two words that you have used to describe yourself on this thread that would concern me - 'emotional' and 'direct'. IME people who describe themselves in this way can often come across as a little self absorbed, maybe rude (and you may not be like that at all, have just heard colleagues describing themselves as 'direct' and I've thought 'no, you are tactless and a bit rude').

I think it sounds like your communication skills are your issue, perhaps make a big effort for a few months and see where it gets you. If you genuinely don't think that you are doing anything wrong at all, go and see your line manager and make it clear that you are looking for extra responsibilities/promotion, and ask what you need to do to make that happen.

Silibilimili Sat 06-Oct-12 13:04:26

Plus quiet and direct are not good combinations. I know.

Silibilimili Sat 06-Oct-12 13:02:30

ade, agree. I have all the good qualities you mention. Enthusiastic, technically competent, moaner but do try and change or influence things, which makes me quiet and direct and do not suck up. So do tend to piss people off by my great 'communication' skills. How do I get out of this quandary or my predicament. Surely it's the work that matters and not the other bullshit surely. Who would you rather have in your team at the end of the day? Someone hi gets the job done or someone who agrees with everything you say and does mediocre?

adeucalione Sat 06-Oct-12 12:44:05

There's nothing wrong with constructive criticism - noticing that something isn't working and suggesting an improvement or a better way of working.

But some people - and I am not suggesting that this is you btw, I don't know you - really do just moan. About everything. Even the stuff that clearly can't be changed. Even the stuff that everyone else manages perfectly well with.

They are often the same ones who won't work 5mins overtime, with a 'they don't do anything for me, so why should I do anything for them' attitude.

They are often also heard complaining about colleagues in a bitter way.

Who is going to promote someone like that, someone that they essentially don't like and don't want to spend more time working with than they absolutely have to? There's usually a pool of people to choose from, and enthusiastic competence wins every time.

In our place anyway.

Silibilimili Sat 06-Oct-12 12:21:37

Yes. Agree with both your posts.

Brycie Sat 06-Oct-12 12:11:30

And by those who deny it, i mean those people who say, this does not happen, you are paranoid. Yes, it does, it's almost universal, and you are not paranoic. People who say that have climbed the greasy pole or are doing it and will see others as weak, impotent, whingers and so on.

Brycie Sat 06-Oct-12 12:09:59

About the people who deny it? or the whinging and moaning.

By whinging and moaning, quite frankly I don't blame you, I've done it myself, but it doesn't buy you promotion. It basically says "I am unhappy but impotent". That's not the impression you want to give.

Silibilimili Sat 06-Oct-12 12:08:10

bry, can you expand a little more. Explain a little more of your last post please.

Brycie Sat 06-Oct-12 12:05:57

I tend to think that those who deny it have done it they see others as whingers and moaners rather than "actors". The thinking goes, well I did it, why can't you instead of moaning on. And I've been promoted, so I can't possibly be incompetent or a bad manager. It's a mindset, and you have to buy it!

mrsminerva Sat 06-Oct-12 12:04:36

Brycie totally agree with you.

Brycie Sat 06-Oct-12 12:03:17

Sorry that should have had a smile!

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