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To think if parents can't take their kids out of school for educational holidays then neither should schools

(130 Posts)
Prarieflower Sun 30-Sep-12 08:28:39

I'm not talking about cheap field trips but expensive jaunts few can afford to places like ski-ing or in the MS case Hollywood,Disney and Rodeo Drive.

Aside from anything else(the unfairness when parents can't even take their own kids out for a one day museum trip) having my kids being taught by jet lagged,exhausted teachers on their return for little educational benefit to a handful is not acceptable imvho.

MrsRobertDuvallHasRosacea Sun 30-Sep-12 08:34:24

All the "jaunts" my dcs schools run are in half term so they are not taken out of school.

I have no idea what the MS case is.

Felicitywascold Sun 30-Sep-12 08:37:52

Yabu

In my experience trips with no tangible curriculum basis take place in the holidays anyway.

And even if they don't - what you have failed to realise is that a trip organised by school and involving lots of children can be planned around to ensure ground is not lost/made up. The curriculum cannot be planned to that extent around hundreds of individual family holidays.

TroublesomeEx Sun 30-Sep-12 08:39:40

Well I can't comment on the one case you've stated. Do you know the details? Was it during term time?

I've never been refused permission to take my children out of school for a one day 'educational' trip - and I have done so.

How do you know children are not allowed to be taken out of school for one day museum trips? Are these museums that are not open at the weekend? What is the child's attendance record like?

Do you understand any of the benefits of children attending residential trips with their peer and without their parents? Do you know the full itinerary of the trips you are talking about?

Presumably the school think the trips are beneficial, as do the parents. Or they wouldn't permit them to go.

having my kids being taught by jet lagged,exhausted teachers on their return for little educational benefit to a handful is not acceptable Have your children been taught by exhausted and jet lagged teachers then?

Or do you not really have a clue what you are talking about, or give a shit and are just trying to stir up some anti-school, anti-teacher malarky?

LindyHemming Sun 30-Sep-12 08:40:52

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TroublesomeEx Sun 30-Sep-12 08:41:55

Oh and the curriculum can be planned around it.

Children don't miss out for these things. The school are required to provide them.

fedupofnamechanging Sun 30-Sep-12 08:43:31

I do wonder how some schools can refuse parents permission to go on holiday during term time, but then plan trips to theme parks, which take place during term time. There is no way they could be described as educational.

I think that skiing trips etc tend to place place over school holidays, though.

TroublesomeEx Sun 30-Sep-12 08:45:50

They're not always about being 'educational' though Karma. Sometimes they're rewards for good behaviour or end of term treats.

And sometimes they are for team building benefits, having a bit of fun and developing good relationships with staff and peers.

TroublesomeEx Sun 30-Sep-12 08:47:50

Schools don't really deny permission for occasional days out unless the school/individual has an attendance problem.

They can't grant them all the time though because parts of the curriculum are missed and often not repeated due to the design of the curriculum.

Whole class absences will be factored into the long term planning. It's not different to suggesting half term holidays affect their education because they're not in school. It doesnt', because no one is.

TroublesomeEx Sun 30-Sep-12 08:48:04

no different

ItsMeYourCathy Sun 30-Sep-12 08:54:57

Here we go again! School bashing and teacher bashing season is in full swing again I see. Makes my blood BOIL! Do you have any idea of the effort and time it takes to plan, organise and conduct these trips? We do them at end of term / half term and IME we provide an opportunity for our kids to visit somewhere they may not have a chance to otherwise. I'm not just there to stand in front if the board and fill them up with knowledge to pass assessment, school is about enriching a person as a whole. I see the vast chunk if my job as creating a positive educational experience for our kids.
Why on earth do we get slated for this all the time?
Sorry for the rant everyone. This stuff is really getting to me me! sad

sookiesookie Sun 30-Sep-12 08:55:29

Schools plan the school year to include these trips. So no one is missing out.

The OP doesn't make sense.

I assume the MS case is refering to Megan (can't remember her surname) who ran off with the teacher. They were spotted behaving inappropriately on a school trip to LA, however I believe that was during the summer hols.

Longtalljosie Sun 30-Sep-12 08:58:20

I really don't think state schools should be doing ski-ing holidays or trips to Disney / LA full stop. Only richer pupils can afford it - one sibling gets to do it and another doesn't (and may not be able to to when they're older if parental circs change). Just totally wrong in my view.

directoroflegacy Sun 30-Sep-12 09:00:32

I agree that the destination of school trips is a bit ? Sometimes - OP uses MS going to L A with the school - but we don't know WHY they went there.
Having been on DAY school trips and seen the work /stress/ paperwork that goes into it I can only take my hat off to you ITSmeC!!

MrsRobertDuvallHasRosacea Sun 30-Sep-12 09:02:42

I don't have a problem with skiing....our state comprehensives do one which gives children who would never go with their families the chance to go.
It's about £ 800 for a week.
My friend's dcs have been on it, and they are on a low income, but felt it was a great thing for them to do.

BrittaPerry Sun 30-Sep-12 09:09:07

EIGHT HUNDRED POUNDS?

Seriously, I don't like competitive poverty, but DH is above minimum wage and there is no way we coukd afford £800. Since he got a promotion, we have been excited to be able o save £100 a month most months and if nothing goes wrong, we shoukd have about £800 fir the entire family to go on a holiday next year.

I know a lot of people can afford it, but not round here.

sookiesookie Sun 30-Sep-12 09:42:56

I don't have a problem with skiing

Would have a problem with other expensive trips? Can I ask why skiing makes ot different.

Prarieflower Sun 30-Sep-12 09:43:59

No way could I or anybody I know afford £800.pmsl

Said MS trip was in February and the jetlag after flying back from California ime can take a while to catch up on.

I fail to see how any school can justify the time taken to plan,organise and get over a school trip to Rodeo Drive.confusedUtterly ridiculous

Re ski-ing again I can not see the justification for the planning,organisation of a ski-ing trip for a privileged few.

A language trip to Paris-that I can see the point of.Ski-ing,theme parks and Rodeo Drive I can't.

As I said if the above can be justified then parents should be allowed to do the same.

And no not bashing teachers-just questioning a system which clearly needs looking at and questioning.If it's a system not being abused then some fairness should be involved.Last time I heard teachers weren't above questioning-I was one.smile

Prarieflower Sun 30-Sep-12 09:47:15

Oh and I speak as somebody who had a miffed friend who got her proposed trip to DL Paris(which she wanted to take her 4 year old dd to)in the interests of the science curriculum turned down.

Why on earth said study couldn't be covered in GB I don't know.

EvilTwins Sun 30-Sep-12 09:59:27

OP, have you been refused a holiday? Is this sour grapes? I teach in a school in a fairly deprived area. In October half term, there is a trip to EuroDisney. In February half term, there is a skiing trip. Teachers don't get paid any extra for spending their holidays essentially working, but I guess you know that. We do instalment payment programmes for every trip. OK, so they're not in term time. Day trips go out though, and our HT is supportive of them, as she knows that schooling isn't just about, well, school. I'll be taking my GCSE drama kids out to see a play next month. They will miss school because a) I want them all to see it so that we can use it in class, and b) if I tried to take an evening trip, many of them would not be able to come because they can't get home from school afterwards, or they have to babysit younger siblings whilst parents work, or THEY have jobs to do etc etc.

Essentially, your whinge is the old chestnut that you want to take your kids out of school for a cheap term-time holiday, isn't it.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Sun 30-Sep-12 10:03:38

Disneyland as part of the Science curriculum! grin

Yabu. Isn't is obvious that when children go away on a school trip it can reinforce what is being learned in the classroom and is relevant to what is being studied at a particular time, but when parents choose the most convenient time for them their children are missing out on what's being done in the classroom and will therefore have catching up to do? Children that do with the school don't miss anything, children that go with their parents in term time do. Don't you see the major difference there?

RobynRidingHood Sun 30-Sep-12 10:20:24

Curriculum based trips do take place in the holidays. My son did 2.5 weeks 8,000 miles away during the summer holidays to a language and mathematics college. There was some sight seeing of course - but only after 6 hours of school.The weren't allowed to speak English in public, that being the whole point.

Prarieflower Sun 30-Sep-12 10:21:10

Nope not been refused.I don't like taking my dc out, our head is pretty good if attendance is good and couldn't afford DLP in or out of the holidays anyhow.

Nope I just think these expensive theme park type trips are utterly unnecessary and it's actually getting silly.I also think there is an element of hypocrisy and actually given the economy resources(including teacher time) should be tightened

Plays,museums,language trips etc I totally see the point of.

What I don't see the point of are trips under the guise of an educational experience that could easily be covered in GB.

I think money is tight for all and if parents have already been talked into expensive completely unnecessary trips they're less likely to stump up for the less expensive/thrilling trips(parents don't have a bottomless pit of money).These trips are not necessary,most of us survived childhood and got a good education without them.

I also think more time,effort and cash should be spent on more trips the majority can afford and which would benefit all.

Tying teachers up with the huge amount of planning/work involved with a non essential trip doesn't benefit the majority left behind.If time is going to be spent on a trip it should be essential and likely to benefit the majority.

If this isn't going to be the case then poorer parents should be allowed to take their kids out for "educational experiences"-I know too from friends all of these expensive trips aren't actually kept to holiday time.

lljkk Sun 30-Sep-12 10:25:54

DS school has a trip to an amusement park for those who have perfect attendance/good grades/etc.

Have British schoolchildren always done lots of trips, including very far away?
I am sure that we only had one trip like that on offer, when & where i went to school. In the last year (so like upper 6th form age). It was to the capital city to see workings of government. None of this foreign language exchange, skiing, biological surveys, etc.

whois Sun 30-Sep-12 10:27:23

Deja vu?

To the OP - YANBU to want non-curriculum holidays to happen in the holidays.

Although I'm not sure the comment about being her lagged is fair as teachers are free to come back from their own holiday the night before school, or I stay up all night at a party, or to have been engrossed in a book, or to e exhausted after looking after a sick child.

I everyone commenting on cost YABU as ere is already and extremely long thread about the cost of trips.

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