IQ in children

[BaskeyJill]

My friend is a teacher and made a comment the other day that made me wonder. She thinks that she can identify which children in her year 4 class could go on to be doctors, solicitors, vets etc and which children would never be capable of achieving the grades needed.

My pfb DS is 7 and has just started year 3. When I look at him I assume he could be anything he wants to be. At the moment he is slightly below average (he is an August birth) but I think he is still so little! He has another 11 years of school until he does his A Levels and I am a bit that my friend thinks he isn't ever going to achieve the 'higher' tier jobs.

[BridgetBidet]

Bollocks. And if she thinks that she probably shouldn't be a teacher.

I had a teacher who was the type who thought that kind of thing when I was at school. She was almost uniformly wrong.

[RedHelenB]

IQ means diddly squat!!!

[frazzledbutcalm]

Do not listen at all!! And do not worry!!
ALL children have the same capability when they are born.. how we nurture and positive parent them enables them to achieve their potential. If they say they want to be an astronaut then we tell them that's fantastic, we give them books and knowledge about their chosen hobby/career/passion. This information fuels their thirst to achieve. While they may not end up an astronaut they may become very high up elsewhere in that field.

Also remember children change drastically as they grow up and develop. They change constantly and can be VERY different aged 18 than they were aged 8 or 9.

With your love and commitment your ds will catch up if needs be, and will find his chosen career that makes him happy.

[headinhands]

Honest? It's largely down to class. That's the overriding factor. Deferred gratification and all that when it comes to high-end careers.

[crazygracieuk]

I don't agree with her theory either. Some children will find school easy all their life (I did) but others will excel later on like my husband did.(secondary school). There will be high fliers who burn out too.

Does your friend keep in contact with her ex-pupils?

[Funnylittleturkishdelight]

I think at secondary school level (ks4 definitely) you could have a good guess at IQ after knowing the child as a teacher for a term. I am still shocked though, when I see certain students IQ.

I genuinely believe passion, dedication and resilience play a large part in success both academically and in career success. High IQ often means a more confident child as they will find success comes easy at school- however, this isn't always true.

I truly hate the idea of pigeon holing young children- no one can see your capabilities at such a young age.

[thebeesnees79]

her theory does not take into account late developers. as your son is one of the younger kids (my son & daughter are also summer babies) its a bit unfair for him to be judged along side the September/October babies.

[pigletmania]

She is Talking a load of shite, and really should nt be teaching. She sounds like one of those teachers who tell kids that they would not amount to anything. My dd5 ASD has no hope then according to this lady. I would love her to be the next Temple Grandin

[pigletmania]

I was put down at school, late bloomer, delayed development and dyslexia, I have good graduate and postgraduate degrees and hoping to do a phd in clinical psychology, so stuff you teachers who put me down and told me that I would never amount to anything

[scarletforya]

ALL children have the same capability when they are born

Tabula rasa ? I'm afraid science doesn't support this theory. Individuals are not all born with equal capability. It was believed back in Watsons time but not any more.

[BaskeyJill]

So what do you think of the infamous quote "give me a child when he is 7, and I will give you a man"?

[discrete]

Ah, you've got to love those know-it-all teachers and the crap they spout.

When you look back at your school class, can you honestly say that the people who got all the good grades were the ones who did well in life?

[scarletforya]

^^It's total wishful thinking. Genetic throws of the dice are what dictates our abilities.

Like when Watson said:
"Give me a dozen healthy infants, well-formed, and my own specified world to bring them up in and I'll guarantee to take any one at random and train him to become any type of specialist I might select--doctor, lawyer, artist, merchant-chief, and, yes, even beggarman and thief, regardless of his talents, penchants, tendencies, abilities, vocations, and race of his ancestors. I am going beyond my facts and I admit it, but so have the advocates of the contrary and they have been doing it for many thousands of years." ?John B. Watson, Behaviorism, 1930

I'm not saying nurture has no effect, hard work and study can improve anyone but it can't change someones inherent ability.

[Nevercan]

I know people with a high iq who are in very low paid jobs and people with a high IQ who are earning lots....

[pjmama]

When my DH announced at the age of 14 that he wanted to be a dentist, his teachers laughed at him. One of them actually said "Dental schools want the creme de la creme, not the crap de la crap". He proved them all wrong and has been running his own very successful practice for 20 years.

Teachers do not know everything, nor do they have a crystal ball.

[getrealandgetalife]

bollocks, i have an iq higher than Carol Vordermans, and i cant do maths. My friends think that i'm intellectual, but i'm not and cannot speak with intelligent people.

I cant follow a conversation sometimes!

[pigletmania]

I cannot do traditional iq tests for toffee, I scored about 30 on a Facebook one, now that can't be right or I would be severly mentally impaired which I don't think I am . There is more to intelligence than the narrow traditional iq tests

[pigletmania]

Way to go mrpjmama that is fantastic

[ReallyTired]

The brain is like a muscle and the more you use it the brighter you become. I don't think that intelligence is a fixed trait. Certainly enviromental factors set in the early years play a huge role as well as genetics. However the brain can still learn and develop into adult hood.

www.livescience.com/4336-smart-strategy-brain-muscle.html

Without decent parent a child cannot develop and become say a dentist.

The research of Dweck is interesting and there is more about it in a book called natureshock. The book the the users guide to the brain also debunks the theory that IQ is completely set in stone for life.

However twin studies support the genetics element for sucess in life.

I think that a lot of personality traits are set at nine years old (ie. year 4) however its still very young to write off a child.

Sadly many children live up to expectations of their teachers and parents. Although thankfully many manage to break the mould.

[scarletforya]

IQ is plastic, no doubt. Thanks for the links.

[nextphase]

Another one here who had primary, and some secondary teachers, completely dismiss the possibility I had some brains.
In fact I remember by-passing the head of year and went to the deputy head, in the sixth form when I decided after a few weeks I wanted to turn one of my AS levels into another A level (before the days of the current system), as she thought of me as thick. I've got a decent collection of A'levels, and 2 degrees. I just can't remember french verbs, spell for toffee, or produce beautifully presented work. But science and technology I can do.

No way they can predict who is going to be successful - just who is good at the very narrow range of skills that are required in primary.

[ReindeersGoldenBollocks]

DH is exceeding bright - always has been and it was noted in infant school.

But he's lazy. Very lazy and despite having a professional career, he isn't earning what he expected and knows that it's nothing to do with intelligence but motivation. Coming from money is always a bonus but doesn't guarantee success either.

[rattling]

Can I offer up my little sister as an example of the nonsensness of this? She was a mediocre to poor student, scraped a few highers which got her into a Polytechnic and onto a very low grade technician job - but in a subject which finally grabbed her attention. At 25 she started a Masters, came top in her class, was fought over to get her as a PhD student, eventually accepting a place in the US. Next week I am going over to help her set up her own lab as she has an Assistant Professor position at a great school.

She was born late February (youngest in a Scottish class), in my opinion written off quite early as not very bright, so she just went along with that idea all the way through school.

[Gimblinginthewabe]

I am also a teacher and that is the biggest load of bollocks I have heard in my life! Has she tracked her pupils through life to find out if her predictions are correct? I doubt it.

Achievement is directly proportional to effort and little else. Some children don't put in the effort until later on and if they want to they can catch up.