James Bond and Pussy Galore - is this rape?

[THEMardy]

Well we all know that James Bond used to be a misogynistic dinosaur, but I saw this clip recently and was shocked. She clearly rejects him and is pushing him away as he forces himself onto her.

Disclaimer: Yes, I know it's old and fiction before someone tells me to lighten up.

[squeakytoy]

she also very quickly changed her mind too...

[THEMardy]

Well she does start responding.

But initially he is forcing himself on her.

[squeakytoy]

All in the context though...

[WorraLiberty]

He forced her to kiss him...she eventually and rather quickly responded.

Is forcing a kiss on someone considered rape?

[LydiasMiletus]

This was filmed during s time when slapping a woman was acceptable as it would stop her becoming hysterical.
Its not rape, as its a film and was not written as a rape scene.

[MrsSteptoe]

THEMardy: at the risk of being shouted down, I'm with you. The boxed set of Sean Connery Bond films has been shelved, even though DH would quite like to watch with 9YO DS, on the grounds that I think it gives really, really bad messages about women and how to treat them. In DH's defence, he thought about it and decided on balance he agreed with me, and we've agreed we'll treat them as family films when DS is a bit older and able to enjoy them while at the same time seeing the ideology for what it is, rather than absorbing it as a template for acceptable behaviour!

[BenandBolly]

It seems so dated

[THEMardy]

Dh has got the boxed set too MrsS and we've been watching some with the (slightly older) DCs, who are in no doubt that he is a misogynist. But even by James bond standards, this is pretty low.

It's not just a kiss though. It's a man forcing himself on top of a woman and kissing her until she relents.

[Psammead]

I think the whole grabbing her arm thing at the start rings alarm bells too, but I do think the whole scene is intended to be kind of flirty/power struggley in a sexual way.

James Bond, especially the older ones, makes me uncomfortable anyway.

[THEMardy]

There's also a scene in On His Majesty's Secret Service where Diana Rigg's father knocks her out because she won't cooperate during the escape. It was so ridiculous the DC laughed in incredulity.

[squeakytoy]

There are also plenty of very strong dominant women in lots of the bond films.

[Birdsgottafly]

This was set in the days of, 'boys will be boys' and 'no really means yes', so looking at it now, it is right to think that it would have no place in a film, today.

'Nice girls' put up a fight, they played 'hard to get', it was a way of socially conditioning us all, to unacceptable sexual behaviour from males.

[Birdsgottafly]

accept

Read the early Mills and Boon, there are lots of sexual assaults.

[WorraLiberty]

It's not just a kiss though. It's a man forcing himself on top of a woman and kissing her until she relents

I haven't seen the film

Do they go on to have sex and does he actually rape her?

I'm confused here.

[Birdsgottafly]

Thinking about most Harold Robbins books, it was customary for the man to sexually assault the woman, then piss on her.

[squeakytoy]

Worra, they fling each other around in some sort of martial arts way.. he pins her down and kisses her, she resists for a nanosecond before getting her paws greasy on his brylcream'ed bonce...

[ChickensHaveNoEyebrows]

YY to the MIlls and Boon stuff. I remember reading one (pilfered from my Nan when I was 13) where the hero did rape the heroine because he 'couldn't resist her'. But it was ok, because she loved him really. Freud would have a field day with that bit of writing.

[WorraLiberty]

I saw that squeaky but I didn't see them have sex so I'm confused about the thread title?

[becstargazeypie]

Pussy Galore is gay isn't she? Well definitely in the book and I think that's the point of all the 'lady pilots' at the end. So there's a whole other level of prejudice going on... (Shed love it really, just needs a good seeing to - bleargh...).

[squeakytoy]

Well sex wont have been shown, but will have been implied.

I grew up watching Bond films from the earliest age I can remember.. the whole family did, as did all my peers. It was never viewed as anything more than a cheesey film, with a bloke who was supposedly irresistable to all women, who had lots of wierd and wonderful gadgets while escaping death..

As a teenager I had lots of fantasies about Oddjob and his bowler hat... .. but then I have always had rather strange tastes..

[LadyBeagleEyes]

It was of it's time.
No way would they get away with that today.

[Tee2072]

A friend of mine watched every Bond movie, back to back once, and counted incidents of sexual assault.

I can't remember the exact number but every movie up until the modern ones has at least one sexual assault in it.

He was not very nice to women, Mr Bond.

[THEMardy]

Ok, maybe sexual assault rather than rape.

[Leftwingharpie]

It perpetuates a rape myth doesn't it - women are the gatekeepers and just need to be cajoled into it, we say no when we mean yes.

[squeakytoy]

Well I can honestly say that I have flirted, I have said no when I knew I would eventually say yes but wanted a bit more chasing to happen.. and I very much doubt I am the only woman to have done that. So that blows that myth apart doesnt it.


I am not denying that every woman who says no does not mean it, but there are certainly some who do.

Life is not black and white.